Dan Lok, a.k.a. The King of High-Ticket Sales, is one of the highest-paid and most-in-demand consultants in the luxury and high-ticket space. He is a best-selling author of 12 books and 2 times TEDx opening speaker.
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1) Your pricing should be based on the results you can provide, not by the hours you spend working on the project.
2) Do your due diligence and research before deciding to partner up.
3) Build the right audience for your business.
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[01:03] – Dan and his wife, Jenny, have been together for 8 years
[01:24] – Behind every successful man is a smarter woman
[01:37] – Dan is a martial artist
[02:12] – His area of expertise is in high ticket selling
[02:51] – Share something we don’t know about your area of expertise that as Entrepreneurs, we probably should: Entrepreneurs base their prices on how much time they spend, but pricing should actually be based on results
[04:35] – Worst Entrepreneurial Moment: Dan partnered up with an older gentleman in a business. He used his mother’s money as an investment, including funds from friends and family to start his software venture partnership. The gentleman took all the money and disappeared – Dan was $150K in debt
[06:55] – That time, Dan was hoping someone else could make him successful instead of taking action and doing it himself
[07:11] – “Making money is nothing more than giving value”
[08:18] – Entrepreneurial AH-HA Moment: Dan’s greatest ah-ha moment was when he realized that the quality of your business is directly related to the clients. He was talking to a business guru who he worked with regarding a million-dollar consulting business. He found out this guru’s external business generated only $10K in 2016, even though he had thousands of subscribers
[10:11] – Dan is an advocate of a simpler business model
[12:08] – Stop trying to sell products and services to people who have no money
[13:18] – “Build the right audience”
[13:34] – What is the one thing you are most FIRED up about today? Dan is fired up about getting on Entrepreneurs On Fire, and he’s fired up about his two podcasts: Shoulders of Titans and High Ticket Sales Secrets!
[14:26] – The Lightning Round
- What was holding you back from becoming an entrepreneur? – “Language”
- What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received? – “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”
- What’s a personal habit that contributes to your success? – “10-15 minutes of attitude to gratitude”
- Share an internet resource, like Evernote, with Fire Nation – Reach.me
- If you could recommend one book to our listeners, what would it be and why? – Simplify – “very, very powerful book”
[16:58] – “Don’t charge by the hours, charge by the years”
Dan Lok: John, I am on fire!
John: Yes! Dan, AKA the king of high ticket sales, is one of the highest and in demand consultants in the luxury and high tech space. He is a bestselling author of 12 books and presented at Ted Ex twice. Dan, take a minute, fill in some gaps from the intro, and give us a little glimpse of your personal life.
Dan Lok: My wife, Jenny and I have been together for eight years. And we’ve been married for almost three years now. Don’t have any kids yet. And my wife has a black belt in shopping.
John: Oh, god.
Dan Lok: I always joke about it. I build companies, so she can buy shoes. But seriously, I think behind every successful man, there’s a smarter woman. At least that’s been in my case, so I’m very grateful to have someone like that in my life to support on my journey, as you know, being an entrepreneur. It’s not easy. And speaking of black belt, I’m also a martial artist. I have studied under two of Bruce Lee’s original students –
Dan Lok: Ted Wong and Joe Louis. And – oh, I’m also working on a pilot – for a TV pilot for a reality business show to pitch the TV network. And I’m going to Hawaii in October.
John: You just have a lot of awesome stuff going on Dan. And I can’t wait to kind of hear more about your journey to see how you got here. But before we talk about that, I’m just kind of curious, what would you consider your area of expertise?
Dan Lok: I would say high ticket selling and sometimes people ask me the question, “Dan, what exactly is high ticket selling?” And I believe high ticket selling is about selling premium products – programs or services to high end clients. It is about selling to fewer people and charging more money. High ticket selling is about – kind of valuing your worth, and asking for what you want, and charging based on your value and not your time. I would say that’s my area of expertise.
John: Well, the question that I’m going to ask is a little different. And that’s going to be what don’t we know about high ticket selling that we probably should as entrepreneurs?
Dan Lok: I would say a lot of entrepreneurs – very often we base our prices on how much time we spend on working on something. And a lot of that, I think, comes from the employee mindset because we get paid per hour when we have a job. But as an entrepreneur, as you know John, we don’t get paid because we don’t get paid based on time. We get paid based on results.
So, I would say don’t base your price on how much time you spend working on something. But base your price on what your – or even base your price on what your competitor is charging. I always say, “Think of what you do and your offer.” Ask yourself this question, “What’s the cost to the client not to engage your service? What’s the cost to the client not to engage your service?” Base your price on that.
John: I love that mindset because I’ve had people come to me before and say, “John, you know I really want to get this podcast going. I just know that they’re bringing in an extra seven figures to my business if not more if I can do it right. And –
Dan Lok: Right.
John: “What’s your consulting fee?” And I would give it them and they’d be like, “Woah. I can’t afford that.” And I’m like, “You’re telling me that you’re can’t afford that number when you just told me that the right podcast can make you a million dollars,” like –
Dan Lok: That’s correct.
John: That’s the way you have to realize, Fire Nation, you as an entrepreneur need to be operating. So Dan, let’s talk about your worst entrepreneurial moment because so far, we’ve talked about awesome you are. I want to keep doing that because you are awesome, but I also want to know that time when you were just the lowest of the low in the business world. Meaning you were just struggling, you were miserable. What was that worst moment? Tell us that story.
Dan Lok: I think nowadays, people say to me, “Hey Dan, you have the Midas touch,” that nowadays one of the businesses I get into, investments I get into – I turn stuff into gold. And I say, “Well, you should have met me when I was getting started. When everything I touched turned to,” right? It’s a touch. I would buy stuff, next day it would go down, okay. So, you’d do very well if you bid against me to shove the stock. So, I started to fail at 13 businesses before having my first success. So, I wouldn’t consider it that I’m so gifted, and so lucky, and things like that.
I would say the lowest point was when – one of my ventures, I partnered with an older gentleman. At the time, I didn’t know a lot about business. So, I basically just loaned my mom’s money. I borrowed from friends, and family, and started this business with this gentleman, a software company. And basically, took the money and disappeared. And that left me for $150,000 in debt. And I learned the lesson the hard way.
And I would say that was the lowest point. But one thing I’ve learned from it – from that point on, I made it mandatory to learn and master whatever area I’m in. I’m going to learn the industry inside and out. I’m going to learn about the clients inside and out versus just depending on someone else and say, “Hey, you should do this, and you should build, and you should invest this money.” I don’t do that anymore.
John: So, that reminds me of a quote, “Every master was a disaster.” And Fire Nation, we look at entrepreneurs like Dan and other people, we say, “Man, that guy is just on fire. I could never do that.” And well, believe me, Dan was a disaster at one point at his life as we all were. And unfortunately for me Dan, people would just go back and listen to my first couple hundred episodes to hear how bad I was.
A lot of people, it’s kind of hidden. Yeah, I can’t hide that. So, that’s just a reality Fire Nation. I want you to recognize that and you shared that one great take away Dan. But I kind of want to dig a little bit deeper. What’s something else that you learned from that experience with that partner that you want to make sure our listeners get, so maybe they can avoid the same disaster?
Dan Lok: I think, at that time, I was hoping that someone else – it’s mental laziness. I was hoping someone else would make me successful. I was putting all my chips and counting on that person versus knowing my stuff and actually learning about the industry. And at the end of the day, making money is nothing more than adding value. And wealth creation is a biproduct of value creation. So, if you help a lot of people, you add a lot of value to a lot of people’s lives, you make money. If you sell services to help product, it’s an exchange of money. It’s not that complex.
And so, I always think of if anyone listening to this podcast, “Oh, you know, John, Dan I’m not making enough money.” I always say, “Are you impacting a lot of people or are you impacting people in a very profound kind of way?” So example, you’re selling – hypothetical – let’s say real estate. And you sell something for millions of dollars, well you’re going to make some money or are you just impacting a lot of people. So, there’s that scale and there’s always that [inaudible] as well.
John: Money is nothing more than adding value. Fire Nation, value bomb. Dan, let’s talk about another story in your journey as an entrepreneur. This is going to be one of your greatest ideas that you’ve had to date, which you’ve had a bunch. But what’s one that you think’s really be impactful for Fire Nation. Take us to that moment you had that idea. Tell us that story.
Dan Lok: It’s when I realized that the quality of your business is directly related to the quality of the clients. That just recently, a few months, I got off the phone with a very well-known internet marketing group – I’m not going to name any names. But if I tell you who he is, you will definitely know his name, okay? And we were just talking about what we’ve done in 2016. And here’s the thing, John. Now, this guru, my good friend, has over 100,000 subscribers on his list. He has over 7,200 paying customers from trial offers, low ticket offers, membership site, all that stuff. He has nine sales funnels, all webinars. 28 different Facebooks, all running at the same time.
He sends out data email to his list. He’s been spending a ton of money and effort developing leads and converting less and less of them. And he has over 20 plus independent contractor that are working on his stuff. Now he works 10 to 12 hours a day, six and a half days a week, and he takes half a day off on Sunday because he goes to church. And when we talk, and we’re just talking about what we accomplished in 2016, we both generated more than seven figure in revenue from our consulting and coaching business in 2016. But John, here’s the kicker, he has, “Externally successful business,” generated only $10,000 more net profit than my little part time high ticket business.
Here’s the thing, I only have 47 clients and members. So, that’s one of the most profound things I think you have to ask yourself. How can you make your income – go live a life of total freedom with fewer clients? And I’m not saying that’s not good. I mean obviously, he’s very, very successful. I’m just saying I’m an advocate of a simpler business model. Now John, let me ask you a question. Is there a difference in terms of infrastructure and customer service when you’re serving hundreds of thousands of people versus I’m serving 47?
John: Mind numbing, especially when you’re talking about the quality, Dan, that you’re serving at 47 compared to the low quality that you’re serving at that higher number. It’s just night and day.
Dan Lok: Yeah and lifestyle wise, I don’t – he spends 90 percent of his time selling product launch, getting affiliate on board, and doing a lot of these things versus I spend 90 percent of my time serving the client and members that I have. And help them become as successful as possible.
Dan Lok: So, my take, it’s – so, here’s the thing, John, it doesn’t take 10 times more effort –
Dan Lok: To start something at 10 times the price. You know this. And people think, “Oh, no. I cannot charge $10,000.” It takes as much effort to start with $10,000 versus at $1,000, I’m telling you. It is a mindset shift, it’s nothing more than a mindset shift.
John: And I’ll tell you, I actually decided to stop doing one on one mentoring a few years ago. And then, Kate was like, “Hey, before you stop, why don’t you just double your prices, and then if you still don’t want to do it after that, then you can stop.” I was like, “I’m actually going to 4X them. And so, I’m either going to get no clients or just a few. And I’ll figure out what I want to do after that.” So, I 4X’d, still got my four clients per month that I was capping myself at. So, now I’m making four times more just be 4X’ing my price and Dan, the quality of the client – I was like, “Oh, my God.”
Dan Lok: Yes.
John: They’re not emailing me every day. They’re not freaking out every other second. These are awesome people who are implementing and are taking action and doing great things. So, Fire Nation, and I love this quote that you said right here, “The quality of your business is directly connected to the quality of your clients.” So, Dan, one take away. What do you want to make sure we get from your, “Ah ha,” moment?
Dan Lok: I would say what I’ve learned is I stop trying to – selling product and services to people who have no money. I know it sounds so simple, but you’d be surprised how many entrepreneurs – because we’re comfortable selling to people who are, “At a lower level.” I’m making $100,000. I can sell to people who are making less than $100,000. I’m making half a million, I can sell to people are making less than half a million.
But versus thinking about if you are adding value, you’re providing a solution. Why don’t you sell to people higher up – sell up, don’t sell down. And one thing I learned is I am in the business and here’s my big philosophy – big take away. I’m in the business – I’m not in the business of turning losers into winners. I’m in the business of helping winners win more.
John: And I remind it was Ramir Satay actually, who when he first started off, I was trying to find his swing. And he was writing blog posts and books about to be so frugal about how to save a penny here, how to save a penny there. And then, he was surprised when he tried to sell a product to those people and they were like, “Heck no.” He tried to stir – he tried to sell something to people that value a penny.
It’s not going to happen when you do that. That’s your audience that you’re building Fire Nation. Build the right audience. The audience that has that disposable income and so many opportunities there. Now Dan, rightfully so, you’re excited about a lot of things right now, but what’s the one thing you’re most fired up about today?
Dan Lok: Everything. I just launched a podcast, a few podcasts –
Dan Lok: So, I love podcasts. And I just launched a new podcast I built a month or so ago called High Ticket Sales Secrets. And it’s being growing tremendously. My older podcast Show of Titans which I interview other people, but the High Ticket Sales Secrets is a daily show, 10 minutes. I just share the ups and downs of my business and what I’m going through. And people seem to love that daily format.
John: I love the daily format. And Fire Nation, if you think Dan has dropped a couple of value bombs, just wait for the lightning rounds. After we thank our sponsors, we’ll be right back. Dan, are you ready to rock the lightning rounds?
Dan Lok: Let’s do it.
John: What was holding you back from becoming an entrepreneur?
Dan Lok: Language because when I first immigrated to Canada when I was 14 years old, I couldn’t speak a word of English. So, English is not my first language. I would say language was the barrier.
John: What’s the best advice you’ve ever received?
Dan Lok: From Bruce Lee. “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”
John: What’s a person habit that contributes to your success?
Dan Lok: Every day in the morning, 10, 15 minutes of attitude, gratitude.
John: If you could recommend one internet resource, what would it be and why?
Dan Lok: Oh, there’s a new resource that I’ve kind of – just testing it called www.reachout, R-E-A-C-H.me. And you know how clarity that you can book a time to talk to an expert, and you get paid, and it’s a nice platform. This allows you – say, John, someone wants to ask you a question, they can make a video, and they can pay you, and you reply through the video. All through text. It’s pretty interesting. www.reachout, R-E-A-C-H.me.
John: Very cool. Recommend one book and share why.
Dan Lok: Last week I was reading a book by Richard Koss. The author who wrote 80/20 Principle?
Dan Lok: He has a new book called Simplify. Very, very powerful book. Simplify.
John: Dan, I want to end the way we started which is on fire with you giving us a parting piece of guidance, the best way that we can connect with you, and then we’ll say goodbye.
Dan Lok: I would say they could – well, they go to Google, search me. I’ve got a lot of stuff, Dan Lok, or they can go to my website, danlok.com. D-A-N-L-O-K. They can also subscribe to my podcast, High Ticket Sales Secret and on YouTube, I’ve got a YouTube channel, I’ve got over two million views on there. So, they can connect with me through YouTube as well.
John: And what’s a parting piece of guidance?
Dan Lok: Don’t charge by the hours, charge by the years.
John: Fire Nation, you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And guess what? You’ve been hanging out with DL and JLD today. So, keep up the heat and head over to EOfire.com. Type Dan in the search bar, his show notes page will pop up with everything that we’ve been talking about today. These are the best show notes in the biz. Timestamps, links galore, and of course, head directly over to Dan Lok, that’s L-O-K.com or check out the podcast High Ticket Sales Secrets. And Dan, thank you for sharing your journey with Fire Nation today. For that brother, we salute you and we’ll catch you on the flip side.
Dan Lok: Thank you, John. You’re the best.
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