Joe Pulizzi is Founder of Content Marketing Institute and Content Marketing World. He is the winner of the 2014 John Caldwell Lifetime Achievement Award from the Content Council. He just released his newest book called Content Inc.: a business model to help entrepreneurs create a competitive advantage using content.
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- The Content Tilt: Finding an area of little to no competition where you actually have a fighter’s chance of breaking through the clutter.
- Building the Base: Every platform builds a base audience the same way: through four key elements – listen in!
- Harvesting Audience: Almost all platforms move subscribers up the hierarchy to email.
- Monetization: Content Inc. companies tend to grow faster because they have a built-in customer database (subscription list)
Joe: I am more than ready to ignite my friend.
Joe: I am stoked to be on with Fire Nation, as usual. I think this is number three, so I'm raring to go man.
John: We call it a tre-peat; you're in the house Joe. And Fire Nation, you know this; Joe is the founder of Content Marketing Institutes. In content marketing world, he is the winner of the 2014 John Caldwell Lifetime Achievement Award from the Content Council. He just released his newest book called Content Inc: A business model to help entrepreneurs create a competitive advantage using content. So Joe, take a minute to fill in some gaps from that intro and give us a little glimpse into your personal life?
Joe: Well, I've been in the content marketing industry as they say for 15 years now. And when I started I had a full head of hair, now I don’t unfortunately, but it's all good. And I'm super passionate about this idea that if you can build an audience that knows, likes, and trusts you – and you know this really well, this is your model – that you can pretty much sell them anything you want, and live the life you want, the career you want, the financial goals, personal goals. And I've been doing that mostly business communicating with marketers in larger enterprises. Content Inc., which is really great about the new book, is this is my passion project.
This is how we started. How we went from nothing and having no resources to growing a multimillion dollar platform. And I wanted to share this model. And the great part about this is, is the fact that we found that there are dozens and dozens of case studies around the world that are doing this, creating an audience first, and then building a product or service second. And I just think that’s the business model, I think, that works the best today, especially if you have little to no resources. And so the first three books that I wrote, they're great, I love them.
They're all about content marketing, but they're all focused on marketers and larger enterprises. This is the one that I think can really affect an entrepreneur or a small business and take them to where they want to go.
John: This is the book for Fire Nation, Fire Nation.
Joe: That’s right. Absolutely.
John: That’s what Joe said. So Joe, I want to dive into this book and really get deep, but even before that I feel like I do owe it to my audience to share a little bit about my experience with your conference Content Marketing World. I mean, you graciously asked me to come and speak. And over the course of three days I actually was honored to speak two times in front of great audiences. I mean, you have just thousands and thousands – is it over 3,000 people – 2,000 people there?
Joe: Yeah, we had 3,500 this year from 55 countries believe it or not coming into Cleveland, Ohio.
John: That is unbelievable Cleveland, Ohio. My first ever trip to Cleveland, Ohio, it won't be my last.
Joe: There you go.
John: It's a beautiful convention center. I loved it. And what I loved is that the second time that I spoke – we were just talking about this in the pre interview chat a little bit – there was also 40 high school students in the crowd amongst the audience. And that was so cool for me to be able to have an impact on people at that age, and I just want to thank you for that opportunity.
Joe: Oh, hey, it goes both ways. And you do this really well, you support the people that are on your show, and you support the initiatives that you're trying to do, even outside of the product you have. And just that you said yes and you were able to be a part of it, I mean, I can't thank you enough.
John: Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate your offer. And Joe, I really just want let Fire Nation know because they're always asking me about conferences. 2016, I know it's gonna happen, are the dates out yet?
Joe: Oh – yeah, we had it planned out. I think we're almost planned out four years in advance believe it or not. So yeah, Content Marketing World 2016 will be September 6th through the 9th in Cleveland, Ohio at the Convention Center. And we are, believe it or not, I'm already programming. We've already got speakers lined up and we're raring to go.
John: I love it. So Fire Nation just Google Content Marketing World, you’ll go right there. And Joe, we're here today to focus specifically on Content Inc., your latest book. And I do love the phrase: A business model to help entrepreneurs create a competitive advantage using content. That’s you Fire Nation, this is you. And Joe, you’ve reviewed and interviewed dozens of companies, who build audience first, multimillion dollar properties, including EOFire, so thank you for that.
Joe: There you go.
John: They all follow the same six step strategy, and some know it and some don’t. And that’s where the opportunity is because there is a method, so if we actually can recognize that method and implement it, it's so much better for all of us. We're gonna talk about a few of those steps today. And the first one I want to get into is content tilt, and that’s finding an area of little or no competition, where you actually have a fighter’s chance, just that fighter’s chance of breaking through all that clutter. So Joe, can you kind of expound upon the content tilt?
Joe: Well, it's interesting, I mean, I've looked at, it seems like it has been over hundreds and hundreds of these companies that are out there, and a lot of them unfortunately aren’t succeeding. And what we find out is that they don’t have a differentiated story. If you look at the stories that they're telling, whether that’s their podcasts, videos, blog posts, whatever the case is, and you really go and you look at the competitive set, which is more than the companies you're competing with, with the products you sell. It could be Google, it could be Facebook, it could be a lot of other bloggers, influencers, whatever, most times you're creating content that’s just like everyone else’s.
It doesn’t differentiate. It doesn’t cut through the clutter. And if you – you have to really create a content tilt and just go almost a niche, upon a niche, upon a niche. Just go as small as you can, and be the leading informational resources for a particular audience group, that’s the magic that can happen. Now, if you're a B2B company, that can be as little as a couple hundred people believe it or not.
Joe: You know, if you're a consumer company it's different, obviously you want different kinds of numbers depending on how you're going to monetize it, but it's finding that different story and how you do – like, with us in Content Marketing Institute, we repositioned around this idea of content marketing. No one was talking about content marketing the way that we did, nobody even called it content marketing. You know, HubSpot did it with inbound marketing; they talked about it a little bit different. If you look at – and that’s where Google Trends is fantastic by the way, because if you can type in let’s say those key areas that you would think: oh, this would make a good blog post or a good podcast.
Go use Google Trends, a free tool. It will show you like what is the search behavior around those topics right now? And then if you go down to the bottom, as you scroll down, if you type in your terms into Google Trends, you will actually find breakout terms that maybe are being under represented, where you can say: wow, this is something that really fits my passion. It fits my area of authority or credibility that I can really build that center point, where we honestly can be the leading expert in the world and I believe that whole heartily.
Like, if you're gonna go in and do this, you have to say: how do I position myself as the leading informational expert around this thing by looking at that content just a little bit differently. Almost like – I don't know if you're a fan of the Matrix, the movie the Matrix?
John: Oh, yeah.
Joe: It's when Neo goes in, you know, he’s one of the – whether or not he’s the one and he’s going in to see the Oracle. And the little kid is out there looking at the spoon as he says, “There is no spoon.” You know, to bend that spoon he had to tilt his head. And that’s what we have to do with our content. We have to look at that area and say: how do we talk about this in a different way that nobody else is talking about it? You did this with EOFire, obviously. And Brian Clark did it with Copyblogger.
Mathew Patrick, who you met at the Content Marketing World, he did it around games and the theories behind videogames and built this multimillion dollar platform. So that’s the start, that’s the strategy. So before you create any content, you have to find that different story.
John: A phrase that I love using with Fire Nation is so many entrepreneurs try to go one mile wide and one inch deep in all these little areas. And they wonder Joe: why am I not making an impression? Why am I not getting any traction? Instead of going just one inch wide, one mile deep, being that only person down in that area, down in that niche, into that one place they can just absolutely dominate, get that initial traction, get those first few raving fans, and then start moving forward. And the crazy thing is they can start to broaden out afterwards if they want to.
They're not stuck down in that niche if they don’t want to be, but if they want to get that initial momentum, motivation, traction. Fire Nation, one inch wide, one mile deep, find your niche and dominate it and start serving.
Joe: Well, you did this really well in your presentation, where you talk about think of the person in your head that you're communicating with. Who is it, like visualize that, who is that one, because it could be the one. That is how – that’s how your communications are going to flow that person. How you're going to be truly helpful to that person. And there are gonna be a couple more like that and a couple more. And I think it's a better idea actually to cut through the clutter in a bigger market, to actually create your own market.
Joe: It is – believe or not it's easier to do that, but you have to really really focus. And that you're right, it's so seductive to say: oh, I want this huge large audience. Well, you know what, you can get there, but you have to focus on the extraordinarily small audience first.
John: Fire Nation, EOFire started with Jimmy, my one listener. He was the only person that listened to that first episode, and now we're at 1.2 million listens per month.
Joe: That’s amazing.
John: That’s the thing though, I just started with that one listener in mind, and you can too Fire Nation. So Joe, let’s talk about building the base because every platform builds the base audience the same way through four key elements, so expound upon that.
Joe: Well, this – I love this model. And actually when I go and teach in front of enterprise – you know, marketers that are within multibillion dollar companies, I teach them this model and they look at me in disbelief. And I said look this is – if you look over the last 100 years on how publishing companies have been built, this is the way they’ve done it. And then all the case studies we look at in the book, including yourself, did the same thing, and there's four steps. So the first thing is – and by the way I have to put this out, everyone thinks that: oh, I've got to put content into all these social channels.
And if I'm gonna podcast I got to do videos, I got to do articles, I do all this stuff. No, you don’t. That’s not what we found the success formula to be. The success formula is focus on one content type. Is it textual, is it a video of some kind, or is it audio? So obviously you would focus on audio, we focused on textual, on blogs. So that’s the first step. The second step is what's the platform? Is it your blog or website, like we did with the Content Market Institute?
Is it iTunes like you did with your platform, or is it YouTube like Mathew Patrick did with his platform? So that’s the second point. Consistently delivered, obviously you know this better than anyone because of how many thousand plus podcasts you have.
John: 1,158, baby.
Joe: Consistently delivered over time. Like, so we decided that we were gonna do posts Monday through Friday five days a week. But the key here is it's not any old time, it's at the same time every day. If you do an E-Newsletter, it's the same time every day. If it's a video, it's the same time every day of that week or whatever. It's not how much necessarily, it's the consistency. You want to set an appointment with your audience. You want them to anticipate that: oh, hey, it's 10:00 Eastern time, that’s when the podcast goes out, or that’s when the article goes out. And to create that appointment with your audience, and then patience, time.
So what we found out is generally it takes over nine months to do this, to really build what Brain Clark from CopyBlogger calls a minimum viable audience. Now that could be different for everyone. For a B2B company that could be 500. For us it was 10,000. We were trying to get to 10,000 opt-in subscribers that we felt that we could then monetize the platform effectively, and then diversify, that’s later in the steps of the content model, but you have to find that.
Like, I don't know if that was a – did you have a number that you were shooting for, before you really were thinking about expanding into other areas?
John: I think my number actually was about 100,000 listens per month. That was kind of what my number was where I was like the audience will then be big enough to allow me to do a lot of things.
Joe: So yeah, I mean your – and your buyers are different than my buyers. Like, my of our buyers are – you know, they're in big companies and you don’t need as many. So if you're ultimately gonna sell a $100,000.00 product, you don’t need a large audience for that.
Joe: It could be a 100 people. So that’s what I love about this four step model is that everyone thinks that: oh, now with social media I got to spread out this content all over the place. And they're maybe sending it out in five, six, seven, channels and they're all over different social media platforms, that’s actually not what you want to do. What you want to do – now you can distribute your content in those other channels and leverage them. I'm not saying don’t leverage social media, but you want to focus on being the master of one and not a jack of all trades.
John: Exactly. And I want to be very clear Fire Nation, like the 100,000 number per month was the one that I said: okay, now I can take a step back and move into different areas.
Joe: And then you go into step five. So basically if you go through step three is building the base, step four is where you harvest the audience. And you were really focused on gaining subscribers, and you're doing that. And you do that even today; where you're moving them into email subscribers, so that you can offer them new opportunities, create that ongoing connection. Step five is diversification. So once you build that minimum viable audience, then you can diversify like we did. So, you know, the first let’s say 24 months, we were just focused on the blog, you know, getting the email subscribers signed up, the blog subscribers.
And then we said: okay, now we've got this audience, now we're gonna launch the magazine Chief Content Officer. Now we're gonna launch the event Content Marketing World. Now we're gonna do the podcast network. Now we can do all those things and you can extend your reach, but first you have to dominate one.
John: So Fire Nation, you can see why I brought Joe on the show here. I mean, Content Inc., and I'm gonna say it one more time here: A business model to help entrepreneurs create a competitive advantage using content. That’s what this book is about. That’s what I'm doing, that’s what Joe has done. That’s what so many successful entrepreneurs that we all look up to have done it and are continue to do. And one of those points you touched upon in building in the base show that I wanted to just really make sure that we absorb Fire Nation is consistency.
We talk about building the know, like, and trust with our audience. And you're not gonna get know, like, and trust, if they can't trust the fact that they can count on the content that you are promising to provide that you stick to that schedule that you're putting out there. So Fire Nation knows 3:30 a.m. Eastern time every day a new episode is going live for that morning workout, commute, afternoon jog, whatever that might be, it's going to be waiting for them. And Joe, we have another killer step that we're gonna talk about in this whole Content Inc. world, but first we're gonna take a minute to thank our sponsors.
All right Joe, we're back. And Fire Nation I know that you are stoked for this fourth step that we're gonna be talking about today, and that’s monetization. The reality is this we're looking to build viable businesses Fire Nation, not just create free stuff forever. I was willing to do EOFire episodes as long as it took to create a viable business, but the end goal was always to monetize down the road. Now within monetization, Content Inc. companies tend to grow faster because they have built in customer databases, aka subscription lists. So Joe, what do you want to talk about here?
Joe: Well, I think the important thing is to remember that it's not that you wait to think about monetization. You and I both, as soon as you launch the business you're thinking about how do I make money off of this? You're not just waiting and it's like: oh, okay I'll get to step six and it's all gonna be there. No, you always think about it, but the thing is – and you mentioned this – you have to build – it takes awhile to build a relationship with an audience.
John: Yeah, it took me six months.
Joe: Exactly. So they know, like, and trust you, you can't just start – and this is what most companies do, whether you're a small business or a large business: oh, I want the leads. I got to get the names. I got to sell them as soon as possible. That’s actually the wrong approach. What we found with our data is that our customers, our readers, they sign up for at least three things. They subscribe to three things; they're more likely to buy from us. If they signed up for our email newsletter, and then they sign up for one of our webinars, and they sing up for Chief Content Officer Magazine, that makes them a really hot possibility for us to sell them into going things, like Content Marketing World.
Because it's pricy, it takes you – it's a lot of resources to go there, you’ve got the travel expenses and what not, but we know that they're all in because they have subscribed. So you got to make sure that yes, you're thinking about it all the time, you get to monetization. Now here’s the thing about monetization, once you build that audience, like a CopyBlogger did. So Brian Clark from CopyBlogger, I love his model. You know, he’s blogging every day on online copy writing and what not, all these things, builds a 100,000 plus subscribers.
Then I said, “Well, how did you decide what product you wanted to launch?” He says, “Well, this was really easy. They told us. Our audience told us what they wanted and what they needed and what they would buy.” And now if you look at Brian’s model, he has six or seven different revenue lines. And I know you have multiple revenue lines, and we do as well at Content Marketing Institute. They actually said this is what we need. We need ongoing education and training, or we would like to buy this product from you. Or in Brian’s case, we need a better content management system; can you do something about that?
And you know what he did, he built the product and now he’s one of the fastest growing software as a service companies out there. So once you build that relationship, there are – we talk about this in the book – there are nine different ways that you can make money off of this. You can do events, it's sponsorship or advertising. You could sell products. You could sell more of the products you have. You could do it through donations. You could do it through micro payments. You could do it through a lot of different methods.
But the things is you want to make sure you build that audience first, and then you can expand your empire. And what I said when you mentioned about the fact that they grow faster, this is what we find with content models because let’s say you have your 100,000 listeners, we have our 10,000 subscribers, that is a future customer list.
Joe: That’s the most amazing thing about your subscriber list; they are waiting to buy something from you. And they will most likely buy when you say: yes, I have this to offer. They trust you so much; they're going to buy it. And then if you fulfill that promise of whatever you're going to sell to them, they're going to buy more and more and more and repeat, and that’s why you see these super fast growing companies.
John: I love this. And Fire Nation, you’ve heard me say this, and you’ve heard Joe now say this, I mean, this is the reality. You build an audience through content. You ask that audience what are you struggling with? And then you listen. And then they will tell you what their pain points, obstacles, challenges, are. And then you, the know, liked, and trusted source provides a solution in the form of a product, a service, a community, an event, all of these different things critical across the board. Now, Joe there's not many bigger Joe Pulizzi fans than me.
And so I even hesitate to ask the next question because I'm not even sure there is an answer to it. But what would you consider your biggest weakness as an entrepreneur?
Joe: I have lots of weaknesses.
John: Say it ain’t so Joe?
Joe: Here’s my biggest – my biggest failure was when I left Pep Media. I was an executive at a large business to business publishing company. I left in 2007. And I had this idea to launch a product. It was an online matching product to match up agencies with people that needed agency services. I thought it was brilliant. I thought it was like: oh, my gosh this is going to be neat or this is going to be something my audience would want. I didn't have an audience at the time. But the good thing is that it wasn’t ready, the developers weren’t ready building the tool. So I'm like: well, what am I gonna do now? I mean, like I've got two kids to feed. I've got a mortgage to pay.
What am I gonna do? So I started to blog and build this audience over time, thankfully did. Then, okay, built that audience, but then the product is ready. The product that I believe, not with the feedback of my audience that I believed was gonna be great with the little research that I did. And what I found was John, nobody wanted it. Nobody needed this on – what it really – it was less than 1 percent of my audience, my addressable audience, actually wanted that and was ready for. And then I actually did the smart thing and started asking my readers what they needed? Like, okay, what do you need?
And I would talk to them and I would call them on the phone and I would chat with them. I’d email with them. And it was all around we need more training. We need more education. They were calling me out to do speaking. They were calling me out to do consulting. And I'm like: oh, my gosh I totally jumped the shark. I'm totally going to a product thinking that they had all the answers and they didn't. They need templates, and they need processes, and they need to know how to organize and do those things. And I said: oh, my gosh that’s what we need to build. We need to build around those pain points.
I wouldn’t have been able to get to that without building that audience. And I think that I did the same thing – made the same mistake as every other company we're talking to out there with thinking that I've got this product that’s going to change the world. And then I had to go ahead and pivot and go through all this pain. And there was a point in 2009, I talked about it on your last show, when we were talking about the fact that I was gonna give up. I was done. I was a couple weeks from actually going out and trying to find a job.
And I was totally wrecked about it because I – you know, once you're out on your own, you don’t want to work for anybody else anymore.
John: No, unemployable.
Joe: Exactly, I'm unemployable. But that was probably my – and I still tend to do that. I still tend to get these ideas and think: wow, this is amazing. But really I always have to take myself back and say what's the needs of the audience? And I like to sue the word – the phrase pain point.
Joe: What is the pain point? What is keeping them up at night? And that always brings me back home and says: okay, will this idea float? Let me go talk to them. And that’s when I find out that hardly any marketers, hardly any small businesses or startups really have a conversation with their readers. I think you have to figure out a – and this could be through Twitter, it could be through Facebook, lots of different ways to get – you know, we have all these wonderful listening posts as I like to call them, where you can get this feedback.
So I still fall into that trap John, so I always remember that time in 2007, 2008, where I thought I had the most glorious product on the planet. And I have to bring myself back to reality and just focus on what the audience needs.
John: Okay. Well, I definitely know you have a lot of these, but just breakdown one for us, what would you consider today as your biggest strength?
Joe: This is gonna sound conceited. I don't know if this is right. Maybe my belief in myself is probably my biggest strength. And I really do believe that I'm a – I've been reading all kinds of books lately, you know, I'm a veracious reader. I love to go through different books. And I feel that if you talk yourself into something, you make it true. Like, if you believe that – for example right now, I'm really working on my memory. Like, I feel like I'm not great with names. And for the longest time I felt that: oh, okay, I just have a bad memory.
Well, now as I'm reading all these books I realize that that’s just – I just process information differently and I don’t store it correctly. It's fixable. Anybody can have the most amazing memory, but they have to do things differently when they take in the information. I almost talked myself into the fact that: oh, I have a bad memory. Now I'm under the impression with everything that I do that – and this is part of my goal setting process. And you know I've talked – I have these goals. And I have a Moleskine next to me that has all my financial goals, and spiritual goals, and family goals, and they're all written down.
And I write them in the present. I write them like it's already happened. And so when I read these I feel: oh, yeah, this is true. And then when I get up in the morning and read those goals, I absolutely do things that will solve those outcomes, that will make those things true. And so maybe the best thing about what I'm doing right now and what I continue to do, and working with the kids and the family is, if you say it, you mean it, you make it true, you can do absolutely anything you want to do. And maybe that’s just that, you know, I've gotten to the point now where, when you get success and success happens, you really do start believing it's contagious, but you have to start it.
When you don’t have any success, you have to start out with the point that: yes, I have to talk that – I can do this. I will do this. I am doing this. I am an entrepreneur. I do have control over my life. I do have a happy family. I do have kids that believe in themselves. I mean, these are my goals that I'm sort of sighting, and maybe that’s the best part. And that’s also the thing that makes me the saddest about some of the friends that I have because they have jobs and they're in situations that they feel they can't change, and that’s just excruciating. They feel they have no choices.
And I'm looking at their situation and I'm like: you have all the choices. You can do whatever you want. You just have to set your mind to it. Just start talking in the positive, and then once you start doing that, you’ll start to execute the programs that will make those things happen. I don't know, does that make sense?
John: So much sense. I mean, Fire Nation, you are the master of your ship. You are in control of your destiny. And it starts with what you just said Joe, belief in yourself. So I love that you said that. Fire Nation belief in yourself, that’s where it starts. Have that belief be the author of your own book, write those chapters, period make that happen. Now Joe, you have a lot of things going on right now that you are fired up about, but what's the one thing that you are most excited about today?
Joe: What we've been able to do at Content Marketing Institute, and the team that we've been able to build is – I just get up excited with the fact that we work with 28 amazing people. They're all over the country. And they're able to live the lives they want to live, and we're able to do something and really make an impact, and change the behavior of what these marketers have been doing for the last 5, 10, 15 years, and see different opportunities for themselves. And by the way, I'm totally happy with if they change their organization. I mean, like I want to see that happen, but I'm more about the individual.
Like, I want that individual marketer, or that individual business owner, to be all that they can be, because that will then change the world. That will change their world; it will make a more positive impact on other people. And I think that that’s the thing that excites me because what we're doing right now – you know, I told somebody the other day John, I was like we're not housing the homeless. We're not feeding the poor. So it’s not like that kind of – but I really do believe we're making a positive impact on the world.
Joe: Where the people that we're affecting have better family lives. They have better financial opportunities. They can do their own donations. They can do their own amazing things. And that leads us into probably the thing that I'm most excited about right now of all that stuff is we started our own foundation, our own charity called The Orange Effect Foundation, which we're basically raising funds to go to children that really need speech therapy and can't get those funds. And that’s the – it’s been a project of mine that I've been working on for ten years. We finally officially launched it as a nonprofit 501c3.
And we're – it kills me when I see that there's a family that a kid, a child really needs speech therapy, and that’s going to make an amazing difference in their life, but they can't afford it, or they can't get the technology that they need to do those kind of things and be the person they want to be. So that’s what The Orange Effect Foundation is about. And our whole family is behind it, and our whole company is behind it, and so I'm pretty passionate about that right now.
John: Well, rightfully so. And Fire Nation I can tell you first hand that having gotten to meet a ton of the 28 people that make up Joe’s team, they're amazing in every way, shape, and form. And the reality is this Fire Nation; think about the 3,500 people that attended just this Content Marketing World. And there's been tens of thousands that have been to past and will be at future ones as well, these people are going to affect such massive change as well. I mean, the ripple effect Joe that you're having is absolutely outstanding. And as always let’s end on fire with you sharing a parting piece of guidance, the best way that we can connect with you, and then we’ll say goodbye.
Joe: My piece of guidance would be there is a model. You have the model, John. I have the model.
Joe: And I think that in a lot of cases when we looked at all these case studies, they were sort of like happy accidents.
Joe: And I want everyone to know that there is an actual model out here. It is a proven model. And you can go ahead and execute this model and do whatever you need to do for your life, your career, your financial success, whatever you want to. So follow the model, learn from John’s mistakes, learn from my mistakes, and you can go ahead and do these kinds of things. And if you want more information about the book go to Content-Inc.com, there's a free chapter there, a bunch of free resources. And I'm @JoePulizzi on Twitter.
And I love to get back to anybody who sends me out a Tweet, just give me about 24 hours, so it just depends on when I get on Twitter, but I love to hear about feedback and what you're struggling with and if I can help you in any way, I want to be that person for you.
John: Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, and you have been hanging out with JP and JLD today, so keep up the heat. And head over to EOFire.com, just type Joe – J-O-E – in the search bar. All three of his past shows will show up in chronological order, so you can go back and listen to one way long ago, which it will be really funny to listen to my side of the interview. And you can listen to one that we did not too long ago, and then of course this one as well. They're all great and we have a blast on every one. And of course, I want you to visit Content-Inc.com.
That’s Content-Inc.com. Check out what they have going on there for this book: A business model to help entrepreneurs create a competitive advantage using content. Fire Nation, I promise you that even if I wasn’t featured in this book I would be recommending it to you from the highest of the mountains because it is killer. And Fire Nation, let’s show Joe our love and support @JoePulizzi. I will absolutely be linking that up on the show notes page as well. That’s @JoeP-U-L-I-Z-Z-I, on Twitter. Hit him up. And Joe, thank you brother for sharing your journey with Fire Nation today, for that we salute you, and we’ll catch you on the flipside.
Joe: Rock-n-roll baby. I'm inspired by you, thanks. Keep doing –
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