From the archive: This episode was originally recorded and published in 2019. Our interviews on Entrepreneurs On Fire are meant to be evergreen, and we do our best to confirm that all offers and URL’s in these archive episodes are still relevant.
Jordan Harbinger is the host of The Jordan Harbinger Show where he throws value bombs on all topics that are relevant to being awesome. Today, Jordan and JLD talk about how to create and maintain connections, gamify the process, and turn it to one of your largest competitive advantages.
Six-Minute Networking – Join Jordan in his FREE networking class!
The Jordan Harbinger Show – Jordan’s podcast
3 Value Bombs
1) They cannot take away, by operation of law, your relationships, connections, network, and support. It’s the one thing you cannot lose.
2) You are not immune to the consequences of not creating and maintain relationships. If you decide not to do this, you’re just willfully being ignorant of the secret game that’s being played around you.
3) Introverts make 3 or 4 connections in a day, or in a weekend, and those people become friends for life. Extroverts, on the other hand, can meet 50 people and can’t remember a single one; they reintroduce themselves every single year at the same event because they can’t remember anyone. They find they have a very wide network, but not very many deep relationships.
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Today’s Audio MASTERCLASS: How to create and maintain connections and turn it into one of your largest competitive advantages.
[00:51] – Jordan shares something interesting about himself that most people don’t know.
- He speaks 5 languages and learned all of them as an adult, except for English.
[02:50] – What does Jordan have to say to people who are too busy to network?
- They are right to say that they are too busy to network if we’re talking about the traditional way.
- For people who are “busy”, this stuff can be done in minutes per day, and it can be done effectively.
- When you say things like, “no rush on the reply, I realize everyone’s busy”, you’re destroying urgency. When people build urgency to increase response rate, it will turn people off.
- When somebody takes the first step, it’s actually a cool and bold move, and a lot of people will be thankful for that – they’ll actually use that to reengage.
[08:42] – If someone identifies themselves as an introvert and hates putting themselves out there, how do they get over that?
- Recharge with ‘Me Time’ – that’s really what an introvert is.
- People who are introverted are actually better at creating and maintaining relationships. What they do is think about people’s needs, listen to people talk, and see their body language and non verbal communication.
- Introverts make 3 or 4 connections in a day, or in a weekend, and those people become friends for life. Extroverts, on the other hand, can meet 50 people, but can’t remember a single one. They reintroduce themselves every single year at the same event because they can’t remember anyone. They find that they have a very wide network, but not many deep relationships.
- The reason reaching out is awkward is because we waited way too long to do it. We waited for months and years until we needed something.
- Make a list of 10 or 12 people that you have not kept in touch with that you knew you should’ve.
[14:33] – You’ll meet a lot of people, know them, and like them. How do we keep track them all?
- Use a software that will remind you of when the last time you spoke with some one was. It’s not cheating. No human is expected to remember hundreds or thousands of people plus when to email them.
- Not being a fair-weather friend is important.
[18:33] – What’s the best time to reach out and start relationships with people who you really want to build relationship with?
- Yes, you should’ve dug the well before you got thirsty, but it’s not too late to kick that process off as well.
- If you’ve got specific people you want to build relationships with, find out who can warmly introduce you. You’ve got to follow that chain. It’s not overnight.
[23:20] – Are some people just naturally good at networking and others just not so much?
- It is environmental. There are people who look naturally good at it. It doesn’t really matter. It is the foundational skill set that you need to run a business or be a successful professional.
[27:29] – When meeting people, how can we differentiate between people who can help us on this journey of life, and who will just waste our time?
- Everyone will find a way to feel slighted if they’re keeping scores. You can’t control what people do. Don’t keep score. Give without the expectation of anything in return and you won’t have to worry about whether or not somebody owes you something. You just operate on the abundance mindset that you can help tons of people.
[32:38] – Jordan’s parting piece of guidance
- You are not immune to the consequences of not creating and maintain relationships. If you decide not to do this, you’re just willfully being ignorant of the secret game that’s being played around you.
- They cannot take away, by operation of law, your relationships, connections, network, and support. It’s the one thing you cannot lose.
- Six-Minute Networking – Join Jordan in his FREE networking class!
- The Jordan Harbinger Show – Check out Jordan’s podcast :)
John Lee Dumas: Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. J. L. D. here with Jordan Harbinger joining me today. Jordan rocks. He’s the host of the Jordan Harbinger Show where he drops value bombs on all topics that are relevant to being awesome, Fire Nation. And, today he and I are gonna talk about how to create and maintain connections, gamify the process, and turn it into one of your largest competitive advantages. That’s the audio master class. I hope you stick around because Jordan and I get into some great, juicy topics all around this theme. We’ll be right back after we thank our sponsor.
Jordan, say what’s up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself most people don’t know.
Jordan Harbinger: First of all, what’s up, Fire Nation? Glad to be here. Something most people don’t know, that’s tricky being an open book for the last 12 years on the Jordan Harbinger Show and just telling people way too many things about my personal life. But, what I would say is something that most people don’t know, I speak five languages and I learned all of them as an adult except for English.
John Lee Dumas: See, I thought you were gonna say that you’re obsessed with escape rooms.
Jordan Harbinger: Oh. That would’ve been a good one too. Yeah, I’ve done, I think, as of recording, somewhere in the neighborhood of 167 escape rooms.
John Lee Dumas: The neighborhood of 167. Check.
Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Yes.
John Lee Dumas: Fire Nation, if you haven’t done an escape room, any major city’s gonna have them, even minor cities now. So, just Google it, you city escape rooms and it’s a good, entertaining time for sure. But, what are we here to talk about today? We’re here to talk about how to create and maintain connections, gamify the process, and turn it into one of your largest competitive advantages. And, this is what Jordan’s been doing for over 12 years now. The Jordan Harbinger show is where he drops value bombs on this topic and in fact we actually did a Friday Q&A session recently, which was super cool. So, definitely go check out the Jordan harbinger show and when you see my name on one of the Friday episodes, he and I answer some really interesting questions about all the things. So, go check that out for sure.
But, he’s the guy about this stuff and I’ve seen him talk live from stage multiple places around the world. We both spoke at “We are Podcasts” in Australia last year. We both speak at “Podcast Movement” every year. So, I’ve definitely gotten to hang out with Jordan in a lot of cool scenarios. This dude’s the real deal when it comes to all this stuff.
So, Jordan, let’s just dive in and talk about networking because I have a lot of people in Fire Nation that know they should network, but they’ve got the kids and the job and the this and the that. So, what do you say to people that say, “I’m just too busy to network?”
Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I understand that excuse. I don’t have kids yet so I’m anxiously awaiting having kids so that I can use that as my excuse for everything like a lot of other people do. It’s actually extremely common all the time. Right? So, you here this consistently. What I would say is that, “Yes. You’re right. You’re too busy to network in the traditional way. You’re too busy to go to un-curated events where some guy in a $99.00 suit is gonna give you a stale cookie and some punch in a Styrofoam cup and be like introduce yourself to the group in a circle of chairs. And then, people start approaching you selling you life insurance, trying to manage your financials, stuff like that for retirement, all that garbage.”
John Lee Dumas: Been there.
Jordan Harbinger: You’re gonna wanna go ahead and skip those because nobody has time for that. But, what I will say is for people who are “too busy” this stuff can be done in minutes per day and it can be done effectively. And, some of the drills that I’ll teach here, namely the level 1 stuff, this stuff is all designed to be done in just a few minutes per day. The reason is because everybody runs a business or is employed by someone else, or even stay at home mom, doesn’t matter, stay at home dad, doesn’t matter. We don’t have time for nonsense.
So, one thing that I started doing when I first believed my own B.S. about not having enough time to network, one of the first things I started with years ago was I would open up the text message app on my phone and I would scroll all the way down to the bottom. So, that’s where there are those people that you haven’t spoken to in like two years. You had lunch once in San Diego at Thin Con and like you never kept in touch. So, I would re-engage those people five, about four or five a day, and it would take me under four minutes.
What I was scripting them was this, “Hey,” and you use their name because then it’s not like “Hey, friend,” and they think it’s a mass text. You say, “Long time no see. Been a minute since we hung out and had lunch at in San Diego at Café Gratitude.” So, if you can remember where you met them, that’s where that goes. “What’s the latest with you? No rush on the reply, I realize everyone’s busy. I look forward to hearing from you.” And then, you sign your name.
The reason you say “it’s been a minute” is because then you’re not expecting them to remember you, that’s why you sign your name always and make sure that you do that. And then, also “no rush on the reply.” This sounds like a throw away line but is actually super important. The reason that that’s important is because if you haven’t heard from someone in a while, John, I don’t know about you but I’m thinking, “Okay. Is this gonna be like Scientology or Herbal Life. You know, what’s gonna happen here with a college roommate’s friend who I’ve spoken with once in a decade? You know, what’s going on here?”
So, when you say things like, “No rush on the reply. I realize everyone’s busy,” you’re destroying urgency. And, when people are trying to sell you things especially MLM or other sort of creepy ping your network type stuff, they build urgency. They say things like, “I’ve got a great opportunity,” or “Something really exciting to tell you.” They try to build urgency to increase their response rate. That will actually turn people like you and I off because we see this coming from a mile away. So, you always want to destroy that urgency.
And, if you send this rough script to people four or five times a day while you’re in the Starbucks line – I call this Instagram time because normally you’d just be scrolling through Instagram – you scroll through the bottom of your texts and you send this instead, you’re gonna be re-engaging 20 to 25 people per week and that’s if you take weekends off. And so, just the pure numbers game, you’re gonna end up with opportunities and weak or dormant connections that you’ve been sort of lagging on for years, you’re gonna re-engage those and you’re gonna find that even though you think you don’t know anyone or that you haven’t really pinged your network or that you don’t really network or that you don’t really have time, you’re gonna find that you know a ton of people and they’re actually more than willing to start up a conversation with you and catch up a little bit.
Because, everyone postpones on networking so when somebody takes the first step, it’s actually kind of a cool and bold move and a lot of people will be thankful for that and they’ll actually use that as an excuse to re-engage. So, you’re re-engaging these weaker or dormant ties and it can become quite helpful just in terms of numbers.
You know, as an example for me, I’ll do this and then the whole week can go by with low responses or just a, “Hey, man. Life. Same old, same old. How about you?” That kind of thing. And then, it’ll be Thursday and it’ll be interaction number 19 and someone will say, “So funny to hear from you. I’m literally walking into a board meeting where we’re deciding our Q1 sales event keynote speakers. Do you still speak?” “Yes, I do.” “Great. Cool. I’m gonna throw your name out there if you don’t mind.” “Yeah. Please do. Text me later.” And, I’ve ended up with speaking gigs, media appearances, joint ventures and things like that, investment opportunities, all kinds of things like that because of just reaching out and pinging people and staying top of mind with a large number of people.
John Lee Dumas: So, totally off topic but kind of on topic. I am leaving for San Diego in a couple day and literally it’s been bugging the crap out of me all day I’ve been trying to plan a lunch with my friends and I wanted to go to that amazing café downtown, I couldn’t think of the name, and then you just randomly bring it up. It’s Café Gratitude. That’s such an awesome place.
Jordan Harbinger: That’s so funny. So, that’s what you got out of that answer is, “Oh yeah. Café Gratitude.”
John Lee Dumas: The whole thing.
Jordan Harbinger: Everything else just went right over your head.
John Lee Dumas: I literally I zoned you out. I went and actually made a calendar invite for Café Gratitude to my friends. And now, like, I have this huge weight off my shoulder. It was bugging the crap out of me.
Jordan Harbinger: You know what’s funny is I know you’re telling the truth 100 percent and you actually did just make an appointment while I was giving that answer.
John Lee Dumas: I did.
Jordan Harbinger: That’s awesome.
John Lee Dumas: Oh man. But, Fire Nation, listen I don’t need to recap what Jordan just said because A) I can’t, I wasn’t listening, but B) I know you were listening so just take it all in it’s amazing.
Jordan Harbinger: Yes.
John Lee Dumas: And, one thing I do know about my audience, Jordan, is that most of them identify themselves as introverts. It’s just a reality. Now, if someone who identifies themselves as an introvert hates putting themselves out there, how do they get over that?
Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You know what’s funny, I give a lot of speeches and train military corporate when it comes to networking and relationship development and some other black hat, more interesting stuff probably. But, what I found is – and you’ve probably read Susan Cain’s book Quiet, or at least heard of it–
John Lee Dumas: Yeah.
Jordan Harbinger: – So, what she found, I should say, and I found in her book was that we as introverts, and I say we because technically according to Myers Briggs I’m an introvert even though I’ve been on stage and on microphones and on camera for a dozen years. I still recharge with me-time. And, that’s really what an introvert is. And, Susan Cain also found that people who are introverted are actually better at creating and maintaining relationships because what we do as introverts is think about other people’s needs. We listen when other people talk. So, I guess you’re not one, because you zoned out on that last answer. You must be an extrovert.
John Lee Dumas: Nailed it.
Jordan Harbinger: But, we listen to people’s speech. We see their body language and non-verbal communication more so than extroverts who are usually focused on their own communication. So, not only do introverts no longer have like a doctor’s note medical excuse to not go out and create relationships, we actually find that some of what introverts think is a weakness is actually a super power when it comes to creating and maintaining relationships.
Yeah, they might not be the life of the party, but they may make two, three, four connections in a day or even in a weekend and those people become friends for life. Whereas the extrovert met 50 people, can’t remember a single one, reintroduces themself every single year that they go to the same event, because they can’t remember anyone, and then finds that they have a wide network with not very deep relationships.
So, if you think, “I’m an introvert. I’m not good at this,” chances are you’re really good at it, it’s just the first three minutes intimidate you because you don’t want to have to start conversations or stand up in front of a group and sell yourself. And, that’s different than not being able to network. So, realize that not only if you feel like, “Oh, this is awkward,” or “I feel slimy,” you’re not feeling that way because that’s the real truth. You’re finding that because extroverts rub you the wrong way. You don’t want to look like them.
And, the other idea here is that if you feel awkward reaching out to people, one thing I realized is whenever people tell me that usually I go, “Give me an example.” And they say, “Well, let’s say I need someone to sell my pet grooming e-book to their email list.” I’m like, “Whoa. Stop right there.” And, John, you and I know this well, the reason that’s awkward is because that’s when it’s like, “Hey, J. L. D. What’s up, bro? How you doing? Oh, cool. Anyway, can you sell my dog grooming e-book to your email list? I know we haven’t kept in touch for two years.” And you’re like, “Whoa. Slow down. What’s going on here? Good to here from you. No. Not a good fit for my list.” And then they’re like, “Dammit. I knew it. This is so weird. I’m just burning bridges. I feel so weird doing this.”
The reason reaching out is awkward is because we waiting way too freaking long to do it. We waited for months or years until we needed something, so of course when we reach out we’ve got our tail between our legs because we realize we done screwed up. And so, what I would encourage people to do, and this goes for employed, self-employed, people who don’t think they need to network at all, whatever, this exercise I give to a lot of people in the corporate world. It’s called lay-off lifelines.
And, what this is, is the idea that you can and right now should, or at least of you wanna pause this and do it right now, make a list of ten or twelve people that you have not kept in touch with that you kinda new you should’ve kept in touch with. And, if nobody comes to mind or if you only have a few, then think of it like this: your business implodes, becomes illegal, whatever, or you get laid off today, who are the ten or twelve people that you would call for advice? And, make that list now and then reach out to those people right now while you don’t need anything from them at all.
Because, chances are that list is going to be full of the, “Oh, yeah. My college professor who really, you know, mentored me and I sort of lost touch with once I got a job. Oh, yeah. My old boss. Oh, yeah. My ex-girlfriend’s dad was a really successful business owner and I never really reached out to him even though I thought that would be kinda cool.” It won’t be awkward if you literally reach out and say, “Hey, it’s Jordan. I’ve been kind of crappy about keeping in touch for ten years. I guess a lot of people go through that. I wanna change that. I’d love to take you out for coffee or catch up by phone. No obligation, it’s just been awhile and I’ve been really bad at keeping in touch.” This way, they don’t suspect that you need something because you actually don’t.
And then, when you catch up you say, “What can I do to help you? I’d love to add value to you in some way or help you out in some way.” They’ll probably say, “Nothing. It’s just good to hear your voice.” You can say the same and that’s it. Don’t end it with an ask or anything and you’ll find that you’re re-engaging a lot of these important relationships that you kind of let go. And then, later on if you ever do need to contact them, maybe in order to introduce them to somebody else or help them in some way, it’s not awkward because you’ve already kicked off the rust.
John Lee Dumas: Lot of value bombs there, Fire Nation. One thing that I really want you to take away, especially if you’re an introvert is that if you are that introvert, then just embrace it, use the strengths of being an introvert and Jordan listed all those strengths that introverts have. Use those strengths. Don’t just go around hiding from your weaknesses. We all have weaknesses. Extroverts have weaknesses. Introverts have weaknesses. Don’t just hide from those. Embrace the strengths. Use them to your advantage.
Now, Jordan, if you do the things that you and I do and the things that we recommend doing, which is networking, staying in touch, connecting with people, you meet a lot of people. You get to know a lot of people. You get to like a lot of people. How the heck do we keep track of them all?
Jordan Harbinger: One thing that I do to keep in touch with a large network of people – this is actually really tricky to wrap your mind around, I know – but, I use software. And, I think a lot of people go, “Wait. That’s cheating.” Or, “Oh, how disingenuous of you.” Look, when you’ve got hundreds or even thousands of relationships with people that are sort of light touch, low touch, maybe we talk every 90 days, maybe every 45 days, maybe even every six months or something like that, these are low touch relationships. I’m not going to rely on my ADD brain to randomly think of this person while I’m not driving or in the shower, which is where I usually have all of my brilliant wisdom, or at least most of it. I need something to remind me. So, I use software.
Right now what I’m using is Contactually. It’s a CRM for networking essentially. And so, what this does is Contactually looks in my email and it sees when the last time is that I spoke with somebody. So, it might be like, “Oh. You haven’t spoken with John Lee Dumas in 90 days.” Which would be surprising because I feel like we talk more than that, but it would remind me that I haven’t sent you an email. And, I can either say, “Oh. Nah. I talked to him. I hung out with him in person. Or, I sent him a text message.” Something along those lines I can let it know to sort of snooze that again, or it’ll prompt me to actually send an email.
And so, I use Contactually and you can do this manually. If you don’t have hundreds of relationships right now, go ahead and just bust out a Google Doc and then you can set little alarms, you can put things on your calendar. But, Contactually scales better than those solutions. I’ve heard of people using things like Airtable. This is a really good way to reach out to people every 90 days, just ping them and say, “Hey. What are you working on? I saw that you’re – you had a recent vacation.” Or, “I saw that you’re planning on going, doing something.” Or, “I saw that you launched XYZ, wondered if this introduction would be helpful for you?” Or, “If there’s anything I can help with.”
Or, hey. I’ll reach out Show Look fans and – or, even show guests – and say things like, “Hey. Our podcast on the Jordan Harbinger show, still getting downloads even though it’s been six months. Is there anything that you’re working on? When is your next book coming out? Or, what’s your next project?” And, you’ll find that people are very, very responsive to this. And then, two years from then when they’re doing something incredible, you see them on television or something like that, you can shoot them an email and you’ll get a response right away because you’re not a fair weather friend. And, that’s really important.
So, use software, use a system. It’s not cheating. No human is expected to remember hundreds or thousands of people and when to email them. Use software, use a system and you’ll find that you’re actually keeping a lot of these ties quite fresh. And, people appreciate it.
John Lee Dumas: So, I can vouch for this. I mean, Jordan does a good job at this. He practices what he preaches and, you know, it’s one of the reasons why we’re chatting today because Jordan has kept in touch. He reached out. He said, “Hey, J. L. D. It’s been a while since we’ve done a show together. I’d love to bring you on my show. I’d love to get back in front of Fire Nation. Like, let’s do this.” And, because it hadn’t been two years since we talked, but only like two months and, you know, that actual time we went out and got a dinner together. So, I mean, we’ve stayed in touch. He’s build this relationship. He’s made it matter.
And, you can do the exact same thing. And, Fire Nation, it’s so easy to let things slide. I have really good friends, you know, people that I’ve interviewed that have then turned into like really good friends, and I’ll jump on a Skype call with them and Skype doesn’t lie. And, it will say, “Last chatted two years ago.” And, we’ll both be like, “What? Like, how has it really been two years?” Because that’s life. Life just goes. And, if you don’t make a point, if you don’t have a tool that’s gonna help remind you or a system, time is just gonna go by. And, Fire Nation, if you think Jordan’s been dropping value bombs, just wait until we get back from thanking our sponsor.
So, Jordan, let’s talk about starting relationships. We talked a lot about building relationships, and about making relationships, and about maintaining those relationships, but what if you really have somebody, or a group of a people that you really want to build a relationship with, what’s the best time to actually reach out and start that relationship?
Jordan Harbinger: I think everyone probably should know the answer to this and you say this a lot, in fact I think you even said it on an episode of Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger Show when I had you on to answer some questions. The best time to plant a tree is 100 years ago and the second best time is right now. A lot of people will say, “Oh, no. I just got fired.” Or, “Oh, no. I found out I have to leave my company.” Or, “I ran into this problem. I’m too late to network.” Yes, you should have dug the well before you got thirsty, but it’s not too late to actually kick that process off as well.
And look, if you’ve got specific people in mind, what I would do is find out who can warmly introduce you. You’ve gotta have – you gotta follow that chain and it’s not over night. If you wanna be in – if you wanna be in General Stanley McChrystal’s inbox, or find a journalist who got kidnapped by Somali pirates, and I wanna do these interviews, I don’t just reach out to them and hope they reply. I’ve gotta find people that know them whose phone call or email they’ll take. And, sometimes that’s three or four people removed and you only find that out when you 1) use things like LinkedIn and you can map networks, 2) when you reach out and people know what it is that you need because you’ve been helping other people with what they need.
And so, if we start reaching out, we can say, “Look. I really want a connection to Jordan Harbinger.” And, you know, somebody emails me and says, “I really want an intro to John lee Dumas.” I might say, “Why?” And then, that filters out, you know, 90 percent, “I really wanna be on this dah, dah, dah.” But, other times I’ll say, “Tell you what? Draft up your email and I’ll forward it to them.” And, that’s kind of a non-issue. Right? If somebody has a pitch and it’s not super scammy or gross and I know that person even tangentially, I’ll happily forward that email to the right contact and sometimes that pans out.
Other times, if I know the person has done good work for me or for a close friend, I will just do a double opt in introduction. And, what that is, is when you ask both parties if it’s okay to make the introduction. And, the reason that we do that is if someone’s like, “Hey. Can you introduce me to John Lee Dumas?” If I just make that intro you might be like, “Hey, Jordan. Actually I already know this person.” Or, you might say, “Hey. I’ve been avoiding this person. They email me like every single week. It’s kind of annoying. My customer service people are annoyed with them. They’re just bugging us for stuff.” And then, it’s awkward. I’ve thrown that monkey right on your back.
But, if I reach out to you separately and I say, “Is it okay for me to make this introduction?” In fact, if they don’t ask for the introduction, the double opt in works even better. Now, I’m reaching out to both parties to ask permission. Only then, when I get permission from both parties, do I make that introduction. It saves everyone time. It saves everyone embarrassment. And, it has the added benefit of adding gravitas to the introduction. Because, if you say, “Sure. Introduce me to Malcolm.” And Malcolm says, “Sure. Introduce me to J. L. D.” You guys are much more likely to prioritize the response and get that interaction going. I can tell you I’ve got many an unsolicited introduction still sitting in my inbox after like two months, because it’s my last, absolute last, priority to deal with an introduction that I didn’t want from somebody that didn’t ask if it was appropriate to do.
John Lee Dumas: So, I absolutely love that drafting of an email idea. I’m gonna use that for, like, probably the rest of my life. Because, think about it, Fire Nation. Somebody reaches out to you and they’re like, “Hey. Can you introduce me to so-and-so.” Say, “Sure. Hey, listen. Go ahead draft an email of what that introduction would look like and what you want, you know, that introduction to say. And, let me take a look at it. If it’s a fit, then I’ll make an introduction.” So, you’re not promising anything. But now, guess what? Probably like 90 percent of the people aren’t gonna come back because they’re not gonna take the time to, like, really create that email. So, that – boom. That’s a dead give away right there. But, the 10 percent that do, okay cool.
Now, I might take that email and just forward it to Jordan and say, “Hey, Jordan. This guy wants an introduction. Here’s what his email is basically gonna say. So, would you like an introduction or do you want me to just go back to this guy and tell him that ‘No. I’m not gonna introduce you to Jordan’?” And then, I can get, like, a yes or a yea or a nay from Jordan right on the spot. And then, if it’s a nay, I can go back to the guy, “Hey, listen. It’s not a fit. For better, for worse. So, I’m not gonna make the introduction. But, you know, fortune favors the bold so congratulations on being bold. But, hey, this is a no.” Or, if Jordan says yea, then I can go back to the guy and say, “Yeah. Hey. Hey, this looks great. Let me connect you with Jordan right now.” And then, boom. And now, every single person in that scenario’s gonna be happy because you’ve done it the right way.
So, I’m totally taking that idea. I think it’s the way to do it. And, ideas like that, Jordan, and of course everything else just makes me feel like you’re a natural when it comes to networking. Now, are some people just naturally good at this stuff and others just not so much?
Jordan Harbinger: You know what, it’s true that there are some people that seem to be better at this. But, I’ll tell you right now. What this actually is, is environmental. So, this is sort of that nature versus nurture question. Right? Yes, there are people who look like they’re naturally good at this. What I would say is a mixture of the way they were parented, the way they grew up. Yeah, there’s gonna be people who seem to have an advantage at this. It doesn’t really matter though because this is not one of those fluff skillsets. It’s not sort of like, oh, low priority. This is a foundational skillset that you need to run a business or be a successful professional.
I’ve spend the last 12 years, or course, running a business but also interviewing some of the most successful people anywhere. And, all of them have expansive networks. They didn’t get that because they were oh-so-talented at what they did. They got where they are because in part, in large part, based on that network. So, yes some people are naturally good at it. The rest of us, myself included, built this skillset very manually.
When I was 27 I was massively shy – 26, 27. And, when I was younger I couldn’t even look people in the eye. It was terrible. And, when I was a lawyer I was extremely shy and introverted. And then, I started doing networking. I started to realize I need to learn how to network and go out and make friends and meet people because I’m moving all over the place as an attorney. And, 2) I had a little bit of imposter syndrome so I thought, “Oh my gosh, I’m on Wall Street. Everyone’s smarter than me. I’m gonna get fired. They’re gonna realize I don’t belong here.” And, one of the lifelines that I thought I had was, “What if I can bring in business, then they can’t really fire me? Okay, great. How do I do that?” You gotta know people. “Crap. How do I get to know people? I’ve never been really good at that.”
Okay, then I started learning things like body language, nonverbal communication, persuasion, influence, psychology, applied psychology, and things like that. And, that’s what evolved into this skillset. So, I’m not – and people think, “Well, of course. You’re naturally good at this.” I am not naturally good at networking. I’m not naturally that social of a guy. I learned all of this because the ROI on this particular skill is absolutely enormous.
When I had to start over from scratch in February due to a business breakup and started the Jordan Harbinger Show again after doing the other one for 11 years, all I did was call everyone I know, and in the space that I thought would be somebody that I could work with on something. And, I built the show back up to four million downloads every single month within eight to ten months. So, the way that I did that was not because I’m so talented or harder working than everyone else, there might be some element of work ethic involved for sure, but most and a lot of it was I able to finally call some favors in that I had probably earned a dozen years ago and call those in and have people help me because I had built relationships before I needed them. I dug that well before I was thirsty.
So, yes, some people are naturally going to look smoother when it comes to this. It’s irrelevant. Do not let that become the excuse, “Well, you know, my sister’s good at this, but I’m not. So, I’m just gonna keep my head down and work and they’ll be the networker.” That will bite you in the butt.
John Lee Dumas: Well, it’s so true. And, I can remember when you reached out to me and said, “Hey, John. Like, I really wanna get the word out of the Jordan Harbinger Show that I’m launching it. XYZ.” In the back of my mind I was just like, “Thank goodness. Like, I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to, like, pay Jordan back or to show him thank you for, like, things that he’s done for me in the past. And XYZ.” Like, you helped me promote the Freedom Journal and the Mastery Journal. And, you’ve just done all those things. So, when you reached out, I was just like, “Yes. Like, I wanna do this. Let me do this ASAP because this is called reciprocity.”
This is one thing, Fire Nation, that is so important. That’s way doing a good deed for someone else truly is the right thing to do. Now, one thing that I say from time to time and actually all the time is: all we have is time. All we have is time. It’s just a reality. So, how can we differentiate Jordan from those who can help me on this journey of life and those people who are just a waste of time?
Jordan Harbinger: Sure. So, this is a question that a lot of people have. It’s like, “Oh my gosh. How am I gonna get a return on this?” Or, “How do I know if this is gonna work?” I suggest – I highly, highly recommend that you give without the attachment to anything in return. You can hope for something in return. You can generally try to bank good will. But, what you should not do is, “Hey, John. Cool that you had me on your program.” And now, I’ve gotta do this transactional thing for you. Like, what didn’t happen was, “Hey. Thanks for coming on and talking about the Mastery Journal. Now I wanna go on your show next week. It has to happen otherwise I feel like you screwed me.” And, a lot of us do that. Right? We keep score. And, this is a huge problem.
So, a lot of time when people say, “I’m not getting things – I’m not getting any ROI on this,” they’re often keeping score. And, what that does is it poisons the relationship. Let’s say that you drive me to the airport and I’m like, “Thanks, John.” And then, you drive me to the airport again and I’m like, “Thanks, John.” And then, you drive me to the airport again and I’m like, “Thanks, John.” And then, you say, “Hey, man. Can you sell my dog grooming e-book to your email list?” And I say, “Hey. That’s not really a good fit for the Jordan Harbinger Show audience. And then, you’re like, “Yeah. No problem.” And then, you go home and you put me on a list of people that you wanna murder later. Right? Because you’re super pissed off.
John Lee Dumas: Or, at least not drive to the airport.
Jordan Harbinger: Right? Yeah. Like, “You’re off the list. I drove Jordan to the airport three times and that selfish little prick didn’t do anything for me.” And, meanwhile I’m like, “Yeah. We’re still friends. Everything’s all good.” And, what’s funny is people go, “I never do that or I seldom do that.” This is almost a subconscious process.
And, men do this a lot in dating, too. It’s like they’ll drive a girl to the airport three times and then they have to much whiskey one night and they’re like, “Angela, I love you.” And she’s like, “What? I thought we were friends.” And then, you know, there’s this whole like, “No. Why don’t you realize all the guys you’re dating suck? I’m the best guy for you.” Like, you know, they have that sort of like emotional vomiting thing. We laugh at it when we see it in a dating scenario, but then when we see it in our professional lives we’re like, “Man, I got that guy a job, you know, few years ago and he never even gave me anything to work with.” Or like, “I introduced those two people together, now they’re doing a JV and they didn’t even blah, blah, blah.” Everyone will find a way to feel slighted if they’re keeping score.
So, I would say look, you can’t control what other people do. But, you – we ourselves, don’t keep score. Give without the attachment to anything in return. Then, you don’t have to worry about whether or not someone owes you one. You just operate on the abundance mindset that you can help tons of people. It’s scalable because when we’re helping people by introducing them to other people in our network, we’re not making free websites for everyone. We’re not doing graphic design consulting for free because they’re our friends. We’re simply connecting people inside our network that can meet other people and add value to them. So, this is fully scalable. And, when it’s scalable and it doesn’t require a ton of effort, you can do a lot more of it and also you don’t have to get angry.
Like, it makes me happy when I introduce somebody to somebody else and then they end up doing a joint venture or they end up doing something great together. I don’t think, “Where’s my slice?” Right? Because, my slice is those two people are like, “Jordan introduced us. That’s right. We kinda owe you one, man.” And I don’t go, “Great. Email my dog grooming e-book to your email list.” Right? I just go, “Cool. Don’t worry about it.” And then, what I found was that years later when I had to restart my show, the Jordan Harbinger Show, from the ground up people could not wait to sort of pay back that favor. And, I didn’t even remember half of these people what I did for them. Because, and the answer is it didn’t matter anyway. It was just good will because I was helping other people without the attachment to anything is return. So, that’s what you’ve gotta do. Do not keep score. You will poison the relationship. And, it will be your fault.
John Lee Dumas: Jordan, serious question. Are you working on a dog e-grooming book? Yes or no?
Jordan Harbinger: No. I am not. But it’s my favorite example because it’s not a fit for anyone’s email list. So, I don’t say something like – because I used to be like, “Yeah. Can you send my financial planning e-book?” And then, someone’s like, “Did you purposely choose our product in Lead Magnet for that example?” And I’m like, “Oh, crap. No I didn’t.” Or, I’ll be like, “Yeah. Sell my make money online e-book.” And then, you know, somebody will go, “Is that a jab at my core product?” And I’m like, “Oh, wait. Shoot. I forgot this is like the–” Something like that. So, I just went, “Okay. What’s a niche that for sure almost doesn’t even exist that would be a bad fit for everyone’s show?” And so, that is essentially why I chose that example. Because, I just kept hitting a little too close to home and people were like, “Um– Nice subtle dig there you jerk.”
John Lee Dumas: Yeah. That person in Omaha, Nebraska is like, “Jordan Harbinger is talking about me. He must be talking about me and my e-book.” So, Fire Nation, biggest takeaway here: abundance versus scarcity mindsets. What world do you want to live in? Obviously I choose abundance. Your choice is yours. Now, this has been an audio master class on how to create and maintain connections, how to gamify the process and turn it into one of your largest competitive advantages.
And, Jordan, you’ve dropped multiple value bombs throughout this interview so give us one thing that you wanna make sure that we really get from this chat today? And then, we’ll say goodbye.
Jordan Harbinger: Sure. The one thing I would say that is something you just cannot and should not ever forget: you are not immune to the consequences of not creating and maintaining relationships. If you decide not to do this, you’re just being willfully ignorant of the secret game that’s being played around you. So, you’re either gonna say, “Oh, yeah. It’s all about who you know,” and you’re gonna put some stank on it when you’re talking about someone else. Or, you’re the person who’s gonna have that advantage and other people are going to say that about you. And, they’ll admire you for it. And, this is a position of power. It’s a position that doesn’t require money. It’s a position that requires time invested and you actually have to care about the people that you’re working with.
And, if you do this right, you don’t – this is the best insurance policy you could have. Because, when I had to start over, I didn’t have social media accounts, I didn’t have an email list, I didn’t have a website, all that was essentially left with my old company. I was able to rebuild from the ground up in just under a year because of this network. They cannot take away by operation of law your relationship, your connections, your network, your support. It’s the one thing that you can’t lose.
So, I highly recommend that you did that well before you get thirsty. Because, if you don’t there’s going to come a day when you need those relationships and it’s gonna be so late in the game you’re gonna be in trouble and you’re gonna wish that you did.
John Lee Dumas: Fire Nation, dig that well. And, if you are not already listening to the Jordan harbinger Show, get on over, subscribe on iTunes, on Spotify, on Pandora, wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Get over there, subscribe, listen to the show, look at one of the most recent Feedback Fridays where Jordan and I just rock the mic on a bunch of cool questions. And, of course, his other episodes are great as well. Jordan, besides the Jordan Harbinger show, do we have any call to action you want Fire Nation to take?
Jordan Harbinger: You know, I have this networking class, like these little drills. It’s all free. I’ve made a bunch of videos about the texting re-engage, the networking concepts, the systemizing of reaching out and out reach and keeping in touch, and how to create systems around this. And, it’s all at jordanharbinger.com/level1. So, jordanharbinger.com/level1. And look, even if you’re like, “Eh, networking. I’m already good at this.” Trust me. I’ve taught this to military, special forces, intelligence agencies, and entrepreneurs whose names you know. So, give it a shot. You’ll learn at least one or two things that will change the way that you do relationships.
And, last but not least. Look, you’re listening to a podcast. Check out the Jordan Harbinger Show. I put a lot of work. I spend upwards of 10 to 20 hours for each guest that I interview. So, I like to think that I deconstruct them and their brain pretty much more in depth than almost anyone. So, I’d love it if people would give that – the Jordan Harbinger Show a shot as well.
John Lee Dumas: Fire Nation, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with and you have been hanging out with J. H. and J. L. D. today. So, keep up the heat and head over to eofire.com. If you type “Jordan” in the search bar, then this show notes page is gonna pop up with all the links we’ve been talking about. Plus, Jordan’s been on the show before, multiple times. So, go check out those past episodes. We crushed it on different topics. The first one I ever did with Jordan on Entrepreneurs on Fire was about his story and his journey, which was super cool. So, go back, check that one out as well.
But, of course the strong call to action is listen to the Jordan Harbinger Show. Get over there and visit the URL jordanharbinger.com/level1 for all that free awesome content. Jordan, brother, thank you for sharing your truth with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we’ll catch you on the flip side.
Jordan Harbinger: Thank you.
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