JLD: What’s shaking, Fire Nation? JLD here with an audio master class called From Orthopedic Surgeons to Steel Suppliers: How Facebook Ads Can Scale Any Business. And Fire Nation, to drop these value bombs, I have brought Rachael Doukas on the mic. She is the founder of Doukas Media and specializes in generating online marketing success for companies and industries that tend to underestimate the power of digital advertising and Fire Nation, today we’re gonna be talking about what exactly defines a hard to market to business.

We’re gonna talk about some ways that you can build trust through Facebook ads, Fire Nation, how to scale your business, and we’re gonna talk about ad fatigue because it happens to everybody, plus the biggest piece of advice for those business owners looking to advertise on Facebook, and much more, Fire Nation, when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Rachael, say what’s up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don’t know.

Rachael: Hi, Fire Nation. Thank you so much for having me, John. Something about me that most people don’t know is I actually wrote and developed four short films with my sister and we recently finished writing our first feature film that’s a family drama and we’re planning to shoot that in April 2021.

JLD: Are we talking an upcoming Netflix original, Rachael?

Rachael: Maybe. We’re not sure yet. It’s actually a family drama film. It’s based off of one of our shorts, but we’d love to get it on a streaming platform.

JLD: Cool. And that’s what I love, actually, about Netflix and the other streaming platforms is they’re experimenting with a ton of different things. It’s not just these hour and a half blockbusters anymore. There’s like one minute videos, six minute videos, shorts, all these different themes. I mean, man, to me, this is the glory time for both actors, actresses, writers, producers. I mean there’s just so much opportunity out there. Super cool.

But Fire Nation, as I shared in the introduction, we’ll be talking how Facebook ads can specifically scale any business. So, first things first, Rachael, I want to just learn how you got into this at all and what do you define as a hard to market business, which has been what you’ve focused on as your specialty?

Rachael: Sure. So, I got into this. I started my business in 2012. Before that, I was working for my family business, which is in commercial real estate. Yeah, I was doing a lot of the marketing there and we were using Facebook to bring in leads – people that were interested in office space – and I remember one day my mom just said, “Why don’t you start your own business?” It was something that I really wanted to do and then I just got into it and I started getting new clients, working with different types of people, and then really focusing in on these hard to market businesses.

So, really what I define as a hard to market business it’s a business with a product or a service that doesn’t provide instant gratification or it requires some sort of customization to suit the customer’s needs. For example, if you wanted to buy a customized steel horse stable to house your five horses, it’s not going to be as simple as just buying a t-shirt online from your favorite store where you can just add it to your cart and then it’s at your doorstep.

There’s a lot more that goes into it when you’re ordering something like this. There is customization. So, you may have to fill out a form on a landing page or a website that goes to the company that asks specific questions like, “What kind of features do you want for your steel horse stable? What are the dimensions?” And then, after that, you’ll probably end up getting a call from them or an email just to clarify things and to make sure that they’re on the same page as you and that they can accomplish what you’re looking for.

So, it’s not easy as one, two, three, you’re done. Another quick example is like an orthopedic surgeon is also a hard to market business. Someone can’t just go online and buy a knee replacement. They have to go through a journey. They may see an ad for an orthopedic surgeon and again have to fill out a form and provide more information, let them know what type of insurance they have to see if the surgeon can even help them.

Again, then they’ll have to speak with someone on the phone and again get more clarity to make sure that the surgeon can actually help them. So, these types of business they require a lot of care, effort, and creativity to get people in the door.

JLD: Yeah, I think it is fascinating and when I was going over this episode and looking at the title From Orthopedic Surgeons to Steel Suppliers, I mean this is really what it comes to when it comes to hard to market businesses because of that journey, Fire Nation. What’s really interesting, Rachael, is that I actually recently purchased the empty lot next to me here in Puerto Rico and I think we’re gonna build a yurt here.

So, what was I doing the last couple weeks? I've been searching how to build a yurt or, specifically, how to find a builder to build this. And this is a very specialty like size and materials and the person obviously has to be fairly local or at least willing to come to Puerto Rico. So, it’s one of those hard to market businesses and it was a really interesting journey on how I found the person I'm now in communications with.

But I'll tell you, it would have been fascinating had I been doing my searching and then gone on Facebook the next day and been served some, “Hey, we can build our yurt for you in Puerto Rico.” That would have been a super cool ad. I would have been like, “Oh, my God, I'm jumping all over that. I need to figure out what they’re talking about because that’s exactly what I'm looking for.”

Rachael: Right. Right.

JLD: So, really interesting stuff and I love, Fire Nation, how Rachael’s gonna be giving us ideas and concepts as we go throughout. One thing that you’ve really been a big fan of and been able to do very successfully, Rachael, is build trust through Facebook ads. So, what are some ways that Fire Nation can build that trust you’ve been able to accomplish as your specialty?

Rachael: Yeah. So, there are many ways that you can build trust on Facebook. Specifically with Facebook ads, you can build trust through consistent branding, remarketing techniques, and really understanding your audience. So, your audience is really key here. So, you have to know what’s important to them. What are the problems that they’re facing? And how can you help them because that’s what’s going to create that emotional connection with them and build trust.

So, really people need to be guided through a journey and to get to know your product or your service in order to build that trust. That’s going to happen click-by-click, scroll-by-scroll, and you really have to be the guide. So, I'll give your audience an example on one way we built trust through Facebook ads for an orthopedic surgeon. So, first what will happen is we’ll create an ad where we’ll target their specific market – potential patients. They’ll see an ad that has a video of the orthopedic surgeon. He or she will be talking about what they do, why they love to do what they do, and how they help people get their lives back.

And they’ll see this ad, this video, and it’s just a great way for the audience to connect with the surgeon without even meeting them first. They’re seeing them virtually. Then we have some great ad copy to go along with it and that’s really key too because you want to make sure that your ad copy and your video really go together well and have a clear message. The audience will also see an offer. So, for an orthopedic surgeon, we may put an offer in the ad copy that says, “I'm offering 10 consultations for the month of October. Click the learn more button to book an appointment with me and Charlene from my office will contact you to schedule one.”

You do want to get personal. So, Charlene is an example of someone that is actually they are one of my clients and she does handle a lot of the leads for a specific practice. So, having her name there is key. It creates that personalization. So, what will happen is when people first see that ad, they may take action immediately. They may fill out the form and they may be ready to go because they’re just in so much pain. But others, they may not take any action the first time. They may need to see another ad and that’s where remarketing comes in to build this trust.

So, a remarketing ad we can target individuals who have watched 50% of the video and run a remarketing campaign that just hits them. We can also do a remarketing campaign that hits individuals that have visited the landing page and target them. So, remarketing is just so helpful for building trust. The copy, the ad copy, in your remarketing campaign will be different than your first campaign. In this example, we’ll use a patient testimonial video in our remarketing campaign and we’ll have some ad copy that goes with that.

And then again, we’ll have a call to action like, “Learn more. Fill out this form and we’ll contact you to schedule an appointment.” So, that’s really it is a journey. Those are just some examples on how you can build trust through Facebook ads.

JLD: Consistent branding, remarketing techniques. How can you, Fire Nation, help them? That always has to be at the forefront of your mind. Is your solution going to help them better than other solutions they may be stumbling across and how can you speak directly to that and then guide them through the journey because this is that journey because that’s how you’re going to build that trust. People aren’t gonna see an ad for the first time and immediately fall in love with you and your brand and your company and your product and your service.

They’re gonna need to see it potentially once, twice, three times, four times, five times before they actually start to be like, “Okay, this is consistent branding. This remarketing is really spot on. I'm getting it. My trust is growing because I'm not just seeing this one ad that’s semi-random. This really seems to be a consistent, directed company.” So, let’s talk scaling, Rachael. How can Fire Nation scale our businesses specifically with Facebook ads?

Rachael: There’s many ways that you can scale your business with Facebook ads. I'll talk about three ways that Fire Nation can try if they’d like to. So, one of those ways is increasing the geographic area that you’re targeting. So, when you first launch a Facebook ad, perhaps you’re only targeting one area and then maybe your business is growing into different areas of the country. Increasing that market will help you scale your ads.

It really does depend on the product and the service that you’re selling and the distribution system that you have in place to fulfill your orders and also how far individuals are willing to travel. But if you get creative, you can really see that you can expand your market. Again, for an orthopedic surgeon, we found out that a lot of individuals were actually coming in from New York to go down to Florida to get surgery with a specific surgeon. So, we were marketing to them as well.

At first, we were just hitting maybe people in the area, but then once we got feedback from the client, we opened up the market. So, that’s one way you can do it. Targeting new interests is another way to scale your Facebook ads. Take a look at your audience insights – that’s really key – and see what kind of interests does your audience have? You may find things that you didn’t even know your audience was interested in and then you can create another custom audience and run an ad with maybe a different ad copy and creative that speaks to them directly and gets them to trust your brand, to convert, and to become loyal customers.

The other way that you can scale your Facebook ads is creating lookalike audiences and these are really powerful. If you have a Facebook pixel installed – for example on your landing page – you can then create a custom audience that Facebook will create for you of people that closely match the individuals that have already seen your landing page. So, they’re creating a market for you based on the interests of your current market.

So, you’re hitting a new, cold audience, but it’s not really as random and cold as you think because they’re taking all that data from your Facebook pixel and they’re creating a new audience for you of individuals that will probably be interested in your product or service. So, those are three ways that I've used. We’ve used many other ways, but those are three great ways that your audience can try out.

JLD: So, let’s talk about increasing geographic area real quick because I have a question for you. When you do that, maybe you’re like, “Well, I don't know if I can serve people outside of a certain geographic area.” Do you ever talk about or recommend your clients affiliate opportunities where it could be like, “Hey, I know that I can’t personally do maybe this surgery in this state, but I can refer this to a doctor in another state” or maybe in some other industry as well that this is relevant to and then you can actually get a referral commission on that. Do you ever do anything along those lines?

Rachael: Yes. We’ve actually done some of that and also, for example, for a steel supplier perhaps they have a relationship with another company so that they could do something like that. So, a lot of that I've had some experiences where we talk with different individuals in the company that are more on the development side and tell them about what our thoughts are and really just get the conversation going and – at the end of the day – it’s really up to the client. But yes, we’ve had those conversations before and our clients have done that successfully.

JLD: And it can also just be like building relationships where you’re gonna send somebody business and it’s just on that trust that – when they get business that they can’t serve because it’s not in their area – they’re gonna send it back to you and this can be very mutually beneficial.

Rachael: Right.

JLD: So, that targeting new interests, Fire Nation, as well as creating those lookalike audiences. And Rachael has been dropping the value bombs today. But if you think she’s done, we’re still gonna be talking about following up with these leads. We’ll be talking about avoiding ad fatigue and Rachael’s No. 1 piece of advice for Facebook advertising when we get back from thanking our sponsors.

So, Rachael, we’re back. And as I kind of teased before the break, I want to talk about following up with these Facebook leads. I mean we’ve spent money, we’ve spent time, we’ve acquired the leads. Now what do we do to make sure they don’t just wither and die on a vine?

Rachael: That’s really important. If you can call your leads or contact them within the first 15 minutes of receiving them, that’s really key.

JLD: Wow.

Rachael: Yeah. So, actually, I use a tool that was created by Dan Henry who’s been on your show. It’s called LeadOwl, which is a great tool for following up with leads. Not every time you’re going to be able to follow up with someone within 15 minutes. Perhaps you get a lead that comes in on Sunday and your office is closed and it opens back up on Monday. That’s okay. These are just some tips that are very effective. It’s really important to show the lead that there is some kind of contact right after they fill out a form. So, that can be accomplished in a couple different ways.

You could set up a welcome email that goes out to a lead. If they fill out a form on ClickFunnels, you can set up an automated email that will go out to them just letting them know that you received their information, someone from the office will be contacting them the following day or later in the day. So, you can really customize that to help your company grow and stay on top of the leads.

The great thing about LeadOwl is that it will remind you when a lead comes in. It will give you a notification 15 minutes after lead comes in, 60 minutes, and then 24 hours and it does this cha-ching noise when you have a lead come in and so that kind of gets you motivated like, “Okay, I need to take action.” And these reminders really get you in that mindset that you need to take action on your leads and you can actually do it right through the app. So, you can send a text to a lead right through the app, you can call the lead, you can leave notes in there about the lead.

So, it really it’s important to follow up. It’s also important to have patience with your leads. One of my clients is a nonprofit organization and they run Facebook ads to get new members. So, I've done a lot of the calls for them and have spoken with potential members and I've had experiences where people pick up the phone right away, you talk to them, and then you maybe email them the information and they sign up. And then other people, you just get voicemail or you try to contact them through email. They don’t respond and then maybe a week or two later, they finally get back to you or you try them again, and then they become a member.

So, it’s really about having that patience. There’s so many things going on day-to-day, people get distracted, and you just have to just keep your brand in front of them and just show that they’re important to you. You’re following up with them because they wanted more information. So, you want to make sure that you can help them. So, if you have that mindset, it’s better than just having a mindset of like, “I need to close this lead right now.” It’s more like, “I need to help this person. They want some information. Let me see if I can help them.”

JLD: So much valuable information here, Fire Nation. I mean if you can actually follow up on a lead within 15 minutes, your chances of success go up exponentially. And if you’re gonna spend that time, that money, that effort to actually get a lead on Facebook to pay for that lead, let’s get a bang for the dollars. And I love that LeadOwl with Dan Henry. He’s been on the show multiple times now dropping his value on all this stuff. So, I love the fact that you use that tool and recommend it, Rachael. That’s super cool.

So, you need to learn, Fire Nation, how to effectively follow up with Facebook leads and Rachael gave you some great tips, tools, and tactics there. But at the same time, let’s call a spade a spade. Ad fatigue is real – real deal [inaudible] [00:20:07].

I mean whether you spent a couple thousand bucks or maybe even a few hundred thousand dollars, campaigns that were once profitable might literally take overnight … You wake up this morning and like, “Whoa, I was making money yesterday. Today I'm losing money. What the heck is going on?” How, Rachael, can we combat ad fatigue to keep our marketing campaigns profitable month-after-month-after-month?

Rachael: Right. So, that’s really important. You really have to keep an eye on your campaigns because Facebook is not a set it and forget it type of platform. Your campaigns they require ongoing management, new ad copy, new creative. So, it’s really about keeping an eye on things and there’s several ways that you can fight ad fatigue. Some of them are small changes. So, if you notice that an ad that has usually done well is slowing down, that might be because your audience has seen the ad so many times that maybe they’re just bored of it. They don’t want to take action anymore.

So, you can fix that by changing up the scenery a bit, getting some new ad copy in there, getting a new video up there or a picture. I highly recommend – if you’re going to use photos – try to use photos that don’t look too stocky. If you have your own photos that you can use maybe of a patient success story that you get permission to use or if you’re a steel company and you have a picture of somebody that purchased your product and they’re enjoying it, having a picture of that is really important. But really switching things up and keeping an eye on your ads is key.

So, again, you can do it in small ways by just changing the target market a little bit, expanding that, hitting new areas, or you can really go in and change everything. So, it really depends. It requires a lot of testing and management. But if you can just keep an eye on things and always be willing to try something new, that’s going to be key to your success and that’s how you’ll remain profitable. Just keep learning new things.

Really go out there and learn you know, “Maybe is my landing page not effective enough? Maybe should I take a course online about landing pages and how to make them successful?” Whatever you need to do just keep trying and you will have success.

JLD: Rachael, let’s end with a bang. Give us that No. 1 piece of advice for advertising businesses on Facebook.

Rachael: So, my No. 1 piece of advice is really understand who you’re marketing to. Who is your target market? What are their needs? What do they need from you and how can you help them? Really try to make your campaigns about them. If you can get through to them, you can develop trust. You can get them to convert. You can get new clients. That’s really the most important thing, the most important piece of advice that I have.

And if you do end up hiring a marketing company, make sure that they understand that it isn’t as simple as throwing up an ad and seeing what sticks. You have to really be on top of your ads and the marketing company has to really understand who your market is. Make sure that they’re targeting the right area, they’re targeting the right age group. If you’re a dentist and you only get patients in a three-mile radius that come to your practice or five mile radius, make sure that you’re not targeting a 25-mile radius. Really dig deep into your campaigns and see who you’re reaching and what you’re communicating to them.

JLD: Fire Nation, I really hope you’re gonna go back, listen to this, and say, “How can I use Facebook ads in this manner?” I understand that there’s a vanilla approach, but this is the whole rainbow approach. You’re really going to be able to say, “Listen, I may have a hard to market to business. I may have an easy to market to business.

But these strategies have to be utilized if you’re gonna maximize your hard earned dollars – your marketing spend – on your business for your products and for your services. For whatever it is that you’re looking to get in front of other people.” So, Rachael, you dropped a ton of value, a ton of value bombs. How can Fire Nation learn more about you? Give us the direction. Also, any gift or call to action you have for us, drop it now and then we’ll say goodbye.

Rachael: My gift to Fire Nation is – if you visit DoukasMedia.com/Fire – I'll spell that out, D-O-U-K-A-S Media.com/Fire – you can apply for a free 30 minute discovery call with me. We’ll talk about your business, I'll give you some feedback on your business, and I'll see what kind of issues that you’re facing and – if I can help you in any way and if we’re a good fit and you decided to move forward – you’ll also receive $500.00 off our lead generation services.

JLD: Wow. Fire Nation, this is the kind of opportunity you simply must take advantage of. I mean the fact that Rachael’s willing to take the time to have a 30 minute discovery call to see if you’re the right fit to help you out and to answer some questions for you, I mean this is priceless stuff that could just get you going in that direction that you need for your business. Especially if you’re listening and you’re like, “I'm one of those businesses that’s one of those hard to market businesses” this is for you. DoukasMedia.com/Fire, D-O-U-K-A-S Media.com/Fire.

And Fire Nation, you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with and you’ve been hanging out with RD and JLD today. So, keep up that heat and – if you do head over to EOFire.com and type Rachael in the search bar – the show notes page will pop up with everything we’ve talked about today, as well as the link to your application for the free 30 minute discovery call with Rachael. So, Rachael, thank you so much for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we’ll catch you on the flipside.

Rachael: Thank you, John, for having me.