From the archive: This episode was originally recorded and published in 2019. Our interviews on Entrepreneurs On Fire are meant to be evergreen, and we do our best to confirm that all offers and URL’s in these archive episodes are still relevant.
Paul Daly is the founder and CEO of Congruent and host of the Clarity Compressed podcast. After the acquisition of his first business he is focused on empowering others to connect with their audience through his brand-first approach.
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Brand Is Gravity – A workshop that teaches you how to define and deploy brand in the real world! Get 50% off with code EOF!
3 Value Bombs
1) Brand is a feeling, and that feeling is the reflection of your viewers values back at them.
2) Brand building does detract from sales, and that is why you need to have the vision for what your brand should and could be.
3) Brand is gravity. Realize that the strength of your brand will attract the right things to you.
HubSpot: Learn how HubSpot can help your business grow better at HubSpot.com.
**Click the time stamp to jump directly to that point in the episode.
Today’s Audio MASTERCLASS: Brand Is Gravity with Paul J. Daly
[1:08] – Paul shares something about himself that most people don’t know.
- Splitting a piece of wood with an axe is one of his favorite things to do.
[3:34] – How do you define brand?
- Your logo, color scheme and your people are all expressions of your brand.
- For Paul, brand is a feeling, and that feeling is the reflection of your viewers values back at them.
[5:48] – What does “brand beats the hacks” mean?
- Paul made up a T-shirt that says “brand beats the hacks” to remind people that developing your brand takes a long time – but it sustains its value.
[8:05] – Does focusing on brand building detract from sales efforts and sales content?
- We have a finite amount of resources in life in general; whenever you decide to go on one direction you are going to detract from another direction.
- Brand building does detract from sales, and that is why you need to have the vision for what your brand should and could be.
[11:12] – JLD shares some food for thought about trading on brands and not discounts.
- High level brand vs. discount chain.
[14:18] – A timeout to thank our sponsor!
- HubSpot: Learn how HubSpot can help your business grow better at HubSpot.com.
[16:21] – Where should you start when building your brand?
- Paul shares 5 elements for building a brand.
- Honesty – understand who you are, what you bring to the market, and what your unique selling points are.
- Empathy – strive to understand before being understood.
- Attention – do something to get your buyers attention.
- Connection – the brand has the ability to build connection, customer loyalty, a tribe.
- Care – it is the ongoing relationship with someone. No one is truly loyal who does not care about your brand.
[22:24] – What is the process for knowing if you are on the right track?
- You will know if your brand is on the right track if you focus on your metrics.
- Automotive Industry Marketing – focuses on number of cars sold and marketing cost per car sold.
- Know your profits and losses and know your numbers.
[25:01] – What KPI’s should a business owner be measuring?
- Know your employee retention rate.
- Net profit – know your bottom line metrics.
[27:55] – Paul’s parting piece of guidance
- Brand is gravity. Realize that the strength of your brand will attract the right things to you. If you are investing in brand, you are investing in making that gravitational pull stronger.
[28:35] – Paul’s invite to Fire Nation!
- Brand Is Gravity – A workshop that teaches you how to define and deploy brand in the real world. Get 50% off with code EOF!
[32:53] – Thank you to our Sponsor!
- HubSpot: Learn how HubSpot can help your business grow better at HubSpot.com.
Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. With great shows like Success Story Podcast. Today, we're pulling a timeless EOFire episode from the archives so the giveaway may not be active and we'll be breaking down how Brand is Gravity to drop these value bombs. I brought Paul Daly into EOFire Studios. Paul is the founder and CEO of Congruent and hosts of the Clarity Compressed podcast. After the acquisition of his first business, he focus on empowering others to connect with their audience through his brand first approach. And today a foundation will talk about how brand is a feeling, how brand building does detract from sales.
And that's why you need to have a vision for what your brand should and could be and how Brand is Gravity, how we'll attract the right people and so much more and thank you for sponsoring. Today's episode goes to Paul and our sponsors. Looking for a place where you can experience live interactions with your audience, then Speakeasy is for you. I'm loving creating daily content on speakeasy and I know you will too. Visit getspeakeasy.com to download the app and go live today. Success story hosted by Scott D. Clarey is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals success story features Q and A, keynote presentations and convos on sales marketing and more.
0 (1m 32s):
A recent episode on how to protect your business in times of crisis is a must. Listen, listen to success story wherever you get your podcasts. Paul, say What's up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don't know.
1 (1m 48s):
It is my honor to say what is up yes to my brothers and sisters in the Fire Nation. Yeah, something interesting. So, okay, I did think about this question because I always enjoy, this is one of my favorite parts of the podcast actually, when you hear what people, what people come up with. And so like I just, I'm gonna share something that some people might know, but I think that splitting wood, that is like with an ax and wood on the ground outside, I think splitting wood is maybe the ultimate activity for an entrepreneur. It's one of my favorite things to do. It, it's cardio. It requires enough concentration that you don't, you know, chop your foot off.
1 (2m 30s):
Every piece of wood is a little different and frankly, it's what it feels like to be an entrepreneur most of the time as you're just splitting and splitting and splitting and you know, every once in a while you make a fire. So that's probably my little tidbit. There's a great book on it by the way. Yeah, it's, it's total a nerd Wood splitting book, but it's really well written. It's called Norwegian Wood by a guy named Lars. Of course his name's Lars, of course Lars might. So yeah, of course. But it's a fascinating book. But either way that, that's my little thing. Well
0 (2m 56s):
What an analogy first and foremost. And secondly, just imagine when you just get that perfect hit and the wood just splits exactly how you envision it and it just kind of sits there for a second. Like it's like thinking about it, then it just drops off the log on both left and the right side and you're just like, it's the best. That's why I splits logs. I mean you're talking to, you're talking to a maner right now. I mean I'm, I'm from Maine. We, we've done all that stuff. I mean we split wood every single fall literally. But to me I kind of, I have an analogy of you know, it's like you get out on the golf course and you're crappy all day, but then like the 17th hole, you just hit that one shot and it's just, oh it takes the one and you're like, I can't wait to golf tomorrow.
0 (3m 36s):
It's like changes everything. That's so true. Fire Nation, I think this really filled the bill on why I like to start with this question cuz you know, it just makes you think outside the box and you kinda get some really interesting answers. And of course we're gonna now turn our focus to the main topic today, which is brands. And as I told you in the intro, brand is gravity and we're gonna be going through a lot of things in this genre, in this vertical, in this niche. And of course Paul has a lot of experience here. So Paul, first and foremost, let's just start off with defining brand as you see it.
1 (4m 11s):
That is the question. I think when anything, any word begins to become popular or becomes a buzzword, like that's the instant it starts to lose meaning just because it's being used in so many contexts. So if you're gonna do anything meaningful with brand, you have to define it. So I really take a page from, I'm sure you've heard this definition before and probably a lot of people in Fire Nation from the marketing guru thought leader, Seth Goden, somebody I respect a lot. He would say brand is the set of expectations, memories, stories and relationships that taken together account for a consumer's decision to choose one product or service over another. I take that definition, stand on its shoulders and say all of that to say brand is a feeling, it's not a logo, it's not a color scheme, it's not your people.
1 (4m 57s):
Those are all expressions of your brand. But brand is a feeling and that feeling really is a reflection of the viewer's values back at them. So that's, that's kind of my starting point on any conversation with Brand
0 (5m 10s):
Fire Nation. I really think you need to step back and think about what kind of feeling number one do you think your brand has and then number two, what kind of feeling do you think your brand exudes to others, the people that are being exposed to your brand. I know back in 2012 when I came up with the Entrepreneurs on Fire brand, for me it was all about, hey, not say anything bad about other podcasts. There were some great ones out there at the time, but one thing as a listener, I was like man, this is great content. I just really wish it was being delivered with like excess enthusiasm and people were like having just, just an overabundance of fun talking about these topics. Cause I sometimes, you know, I just wasn't getting that energy through the voice cuz we as humans are so unbelievably good at just translating voice tonality into what actually people are feeling.
0 (5m 55s):
And I said, hey with entrepreneurs on Fire, fire, that's, that's just gonna stand for igniting, inspiring, exciting, crushing it. Like I want all these things to come out and for some people it's gonna be over the top and it's gonna be corny. And that's, and that's, and that's not our tribe, but our tribe are people that want that nice fresh cup of entrepreneurs on fire coffee in the morning, so to speak. Love that. To really start their day. And one thing that I love personally that you say Paul is brand beats the hacks. What do you mean by that?
1 (6m 23s):
Brand beats the hacks. It's just something that came up. I actually made a t-shirt that says it to remind people, it's a great conversation starter. We live in a day and age where there's always a faster way you search hacks up on YouTube and you're gonna see hacks from everything from you know, tying your shoes to cutting your lawn. And in marketing there's this, I think a growing addiction to the tactical nature of hacking. And what I mean is hacking the Google algorithm, hacking Instagram, hacking organic on LinkedIn. And there's always this thought that like any addiction, whether that's in you know, brand hacking or just physical addiction, like we give it all of our time, energy and money in the hopes that it will save us from something.
1 (7m 5s):
But those are just hacks and they don't save you from anything. So when I say develop brand beats the hacks, it's developing your brand is a long play. Developing your brand also doesn't go away fast. It takes a long time to build but it also sustains its value. So when you build brand, it will beat an algorithm hack any day of the week, any year because the hacks come and go. Google decides to change their algorithm and guess what? You have to find another hack. So that's what I mean when I say brand beats the hacks
0 (7m 34s):
Brand beats the hacks and this is like another area of Fire Nation that I'm really passionate about really being a micro niche and dominating your niche. Because believe me, a lot of people say, well I could never have a brand like this because you know, there's Nike or there's, you know, fill in the blank under Armor. But the reality is like you can be the brands in the micro niche that you're passionate about. You can become the number one individual if you're willing to niche, niche down again and then niche till it hurts. And guess what? Just cuz you start there doesn't mean you end there. I mean look at Nike started with like one pair of shoes that were made on a waffle iron and now look, look at what they are today.
0 (8m 14s):
I mean there's nothing that they don't create that you could actually quote unquote where. So think about that Fire Nation where you can become an amazing brand even in today's market where people think it's so saturated in every way, shape and form. If you find that right micro niche to start off with and then expand from there. Now one thing that I've definitely found, Paul, is that focusing on brand building can actually detract from sales efforts and sales content. So what exactly would you say if someone said that phrase to you? Would you back slap them in the face or would you give them a big hug or something in the middle?
1 (8m 51s):
Well I think Tough love is delivered best with a hug, not back slap.
0 (8m 55s):
So but you'd be thinking back slap.
1 (8m 58s):
No, I I wouldn't be thinking back slap. Yeah that that's just a real funny visual. So here's what I think, I think we have a finite amount of resources in life in general. This goes from personal relationships to business, finite amount of money, finite amount of intellectual property, finite amount of, you know, human capital, finite amount, let's face it, of emotional energy. So whenever you decide to go one direction, you are going to detract from another direction. We make a thousand decisions like this every single day, right? Am I going to eat the donut or am I gonna be in better shape? Right? You can't have both. So when it comes to taking from sales activity, it does detract because you have a finite resource of your time, money, emotional energy.
1 (9m 40s):
However it really is the long plane saying brand building activity supercharges your sales activity. Because when you start trading on brand and not an offer, not a 50% off and not a, not a like a a fomo, like you have to buy it right now but you're trading on the fact that people actually see your organization, your product, your service as a part of who they are. Once you get there, every sales activity is much easier. You have to put less offers. I always say like I'm a Nike guy and I'm Nike, you know when I say the word Nike people might have a political thought, you might have a sports team affiliation thought for me I connect with just do it the mentality that even though I know the likelihood is I'm not going to win this match, it's worth the struggle and the effort of improving and getting better.
1 (10m 28s):
So I see that as a reflection of my beliefs. So I become a Nike follower, I become part of Nike's tribe in that sense. And I don't buy Nikes because they sent me a coupon when I was a in-market shopper. I buy Nikes because they make me feel a certain way when I put them on. So does Nike now through their brand work, does that make their sales job easier? You bet it does. But when they were just starting out, what have I had that belief, no, it takes time to develop. So yes brand does detract from sales. That's why you need to have the vision for what your brand should and could be and what that feeling could and should impact the buyer, the buyer mindset and the buyer's psyche. So it does, it does take away from it but if you're doing it right, it's in a way that supercharges it not too far down the line.
1 (11m 13s):
0 (11m 14s):
My main question from that entire ranch right there is can I eat Ben and Jerry's and still be in better
1 (11m 21s):
Shape? It depends on how you define better shape, emotional shape. Yes.
0 (11m 26s):
I mean I know I can't eat donuts supposedly, but what about Ben and Jerry's? I mean come on. Hey
1 (11m 32s):
Health, health is so much mental so maybe
0 (11m 36s):
Stay away from sugar, Fire Nation, stay away from sugar. So I wanna kind of go back to something that you shared that I really actually did love which was start trading on brand Fire Nation, not discounts, start trading on brand not discounts. And I have a couple examples here that I jotted down while you were chatting Paul. And number one was JCPenney. I mean they actually randomly enough built their brands on discounts and then what happens, you had the CEO for Apple or really high ranking dude from Apple come in, take over JCPenney and he's like, yep, we can't really make money and you haven't been making money for a long time. JCPenney like you're going down the crapper right now, we're gonna take away all the discounts. And guess what they did?
0 (12m 16s):
And people stopped coming cuz people were only going to JCPenney for discounts. So JCPenney was forced after billions of dollars of losses to fire that dude and then to go back to discounts and now they're of course still struggling cuz their business model is just all about discounts and they can't get away from that. We're on the flip side, you think Tiffany's is like discounting 50% off, they're like perfect high cut diamond rings, of course not like people go to Tiffany's because of the brand that they've built. So who do you wanna be? Do you wanna be the JCPenney where you just have a pile of clothes in every single corner around the store and nobody there? Or do you wanna be the Tiffany's where you walk in and everybody you know that's there is so helpful and is giving you champagne and wants that you know really make your life better?
0 (12m 59s):
Like what kind of brand do you wanna be associated with like that higher level brands or just that discount kind of chain, you know, headed for the dumpster so to speak. So some food for Thought Fire Nation. Paul, we're about to take a break but before we do you wanna kind wrap on what I just shared and then we'll take a minute and thank our sponsors? Absolutely.
1 (13m 19s):
I love the JCPenney example. I was watching that one very closely as it un unraveled and I shopped at JCPenney's and the reason was cuz you always walk out feeling like, wow, I just got a really great deal,
0 (13m 29s):
Really great deal. But
1 (13m 30s):
Being an Apple guy, I was like, oh he's gotta make the shopping experience better. They're getting rid of the racks, it's gonna be more open, it's gonna be more like, but then they took away the discounts and guess what, I stopped going to JCPenney. Yeah and you know, I think JCPenney fundamentally made, made a move from a corporate level where they didn't really understand their brand. Therefore I believe it wasn't really well defined for beginning because they just literally threw it out and they tried to really inherit the brand beliefs of someone from a different organization that was successful in a different industry and the market reacted and saying like, no, there's no connection now. So I love that example,
0 (14m 7s):
Cool stuff and Fire Nation, we're gonna be talking about where you need to start when building your brand. And we're gonna be talking about the KPIs you need to be measuring in your actual business. When we get back from thinking our sponsors, we all know how important engagement with our audience is as creators. Finding effective ways to provide value while also being able to interact in real time is a challenge. But now there's Speakeasy. Speakeasy is an app that allows you to organize your own live talk show. It's made by creators for creators and is uniquely built to help you monetize your audience. Whether you use it for live podcasting, show recordings or hosting premium content, people can subscribe to Speakeasy has you covered, wanna stream private shows for select attendees, you can do that too.
0 (14m 53s):
All you have to do is download the app, go live and you'll be connecting with an interactive audience immediately. I'm loving creating daily content on speakeasy and I know you're going to love it too. So what are you waiting for? Visit getspeakeasy.com to download the app. Check me out at John Lee Dumas and let's start rock and Speakeasy together. That's getspeakeasy.com. I look forward to interacting with you Fire Nation, are you looking for a place where you can exchange ideas, shared knowledge, and find invaluable mentors, co-founders and investors? Sounds too good to be true, right? Thanks to HubSpot, it exists and right now you can get instant access to a community of 16,000 plus business builders at trends.co/mfm Trends is a HubSpot community for founders and entrepreneurs that tells you what the next big thing is gonna be months before everyone else and delivers access to analysts, vetted business ideas and market signals straight to your inbox every single week.
0 (15m 50s):
Inside trends, you also have access to live virtual business training in Q and A. Sessions that feel like MBA lectures where you can learn everything from advanced marketing techniques to how to get fundraising from venture capitalists. A seven day trial of trends is yours for only $1 and a yearly subscription plus access to the community is $299 per year. Get a seven day trial of trends, transfer only $1 at trends.co/mfm. That's trends.co/mfm. So Paul, we are back and I tease Fire Nation a little bit. They're gonna give them the starting points of building their brand. So why don't you take that away and fill Fire Nation.
0 (16m 31s):
And on that starting point,
1 (16m 34s):
I've put a lot of time and energy into this. I've been in business since 2003 and in several industries and it's the same way regardless of what industry you're in. And I finally narrowed it down to to five elements basically of how you would navigate through a brand, but it always starts each and every time. Where do you start? And it's honesty. So honesty with yourself about what you really want to be, what you really deliver. And you can be a little aspirational, but it can't be so aspirational that it's not realistic honesty and saying like what does the market actually want? And if you don't start there, then you're already off course because you're building on something that's not the truth.
1 (17m 19s):
So you have to start by defining what it is that you bring to the market, what it is and how that ties in with what you actually wanna do as an entrepreneur, as a person, and the market that you wanna make. The next step is empathy. Now this is another buzzword that we're hearing a lot around, but I think empathy will never go out of style because it's one of the most human relationship points that we have. It's one of the most human communication points we have and we define it this way, strive to understand before being understood. Most companies, many, many companies and brands make the mistake of just trying so hard to be understood that they don't do the work and take the time to understand.
1 (18m 0s):
And this is where in marketing we talk about things like persona development and what does this person, this buyer, potential buyer actually want? And we approach it from an, I always approach it from an element of not a demographic, right? Demographic is age, financial status, marital status, but a psychographic. How does that person think and perceive? And really combining that understanding of what that person wants out of life with the honesty of who you actually are and what you can actually provide is where the power begins. Number three is attention. Attention is like, it almost feels like this is where it gets a little more superficial after we're getting like super deep with honesty and empathy.
1 (18m 40s):
But if you think about the progression and how you would communicate someone something to someone, number one, you have to understand who you are. Number two, you have to understand what it is that they care about, what they value, what they're afraid of, what they want to be. And then you have to do something to get their attention or you can't have this conversation. So attention is where you start to consider the channels where your personas live and the things and the type of things that they pay attention to because you have to spark a little creative attention. Let's face it, all marketing is an interruption. Everything, we're always doing something else that we wanted to do. When marketing strikes, it's like a shadow that's cast over everything we do now that we live on our phones and live in this digital world.
1 (19m 21s):
So in order to not be an interruption and instead to bring value, we have to make something that gets the attention of that person. Like I have 10 year old and an eight year old daughter. So if I see a video or something that has to do with making slime, and you're not gonna understand this unless you have it, unless you have, unless you have a daughter in this age group, you don't understand. But if I see a video of someone putting together glue and laundry detergent, I know it sounds weird, but that's gonna get my attention. Why? Because my psychographic is, I'm a dad. So you have to do something that gets the attention. It can be outside the box. This is where you can let you know flex the creative muscle. But this is where creative truly is the variable of continuing the process of honesty, empathy.
1 (20m 4s):
Next is attention.
0 (20m 5s):
Okay, as long as your daughters aren't actually eating that concoction afterwards,
1 (20m 11s):
Man that stuff gets everywhere. Oh man, it gets on the carpet and it's, it's, it's what a phenomenon. Oh man could, it never, can't make this up.
0 (20m 19s):
All right, keep on cranking.
1 (20m 20s):
So honesty, empathy, attention. Once you know who you are, once you understand what your target audience really desires and what they're afraid of and what they want, and once you get their attention, now it's time for a conversation. And this is the next step in the four step is connection. I believe that brand is based on a level of connection and you're either doing things that are moving closer to connection or deepening connection or you're doing things that detract from it. Pull away from repel. So connection is the foundational principle of human interaction and behavior. And so the fact that a brand has the ability to do all these things and make a connection, this is, you know, we call it customer loyalty, but you call it, you call it a tribe, right?
1 (21m 5s):
A tribe is connected, A tribe says our interests are aligned and we're in the same ship and it'll sink or it'll go and float together. So that's the next step. Once you reach connection, now you really have something to, to stand on, something to build on. That's the thing that begins to supercharge your sales efforts because you've now made a connection
0 (21m 27s):
In last but not least
1 (21m 29s):
Last, but definitely not least, you know, I I, I went back and forth whether or not this should be part of the process because at first when I, as I thought through it, like connection was the highest goal. Once you make a connection, you've made it. And I've realized that no, there's a point beyond connection. And if you think of the, the sense of, you know, I was talking gravitational pull and orbit, the way things orbit around a a mass that has gravity care is the ongoing relationship with someone in marketing, branding, business, human relationship care is the constant stream of paying attention and practicing empathy and meaningful connection.
1 (22m 11s):
And it's in perpetuity. If you're in a relationship, you understand this. If you're married, you understand this, that the second you stop cultivating the connection, the connection begins to get weaker. That's why I wanted to make sure there was something at the end of the process that actually keeps us engaged and gets us to go right back into the cycle again because business customers, JCPenney will tell us this, right? No, no one is truly loyal to somebody who doesn't care about them anymore. That's why we made it the last step.
0 (22m 43s):
So Fire Nation, I want to go through these five again real quickly and kind of share with you the notes that I jotted down and what I thought were kinda the biggest takeaways. So number one is honesty. What do you actually bring to the market? You have to be able to define that. Number two is empathy. Strive to understand before being understood. I mean that phrase is a keeper. Fire Nation strive to understand before being understood. Number three, attention. Consider the channels where your clients are living and what they actually pay attention to. Critical, critical force connection brand is based on connection. Fire Nation, don't forget it. You're either repelling or attracting. And by the way, repelling is okay.
0 (23m 25s):
I actually think a lot of people need to accept repelling the wrong people. Like you need to be okay with repelling the wrong people. Cause not everybody needs to be your client, your ideal customer in your world. Not everybody needs to love your brand. In fact, I love the saying love me or hate me cuz there's no money in the middle. So in my world, repelling is okay as long as as you're doing a significant amount of attracting at the same time. Then the last part is care that ongoing relationship Fire Nation, cuz I got another phrase for you here. Your buyers are buyers. So people who have already put their faith and trust in you and have done business with you, those are people that are gonna do business with you again and again and again if you maintain care, if they know that you still matter to them.
0 (24m 10s):
So with all this being said Paul, how do we know if we're on the right track
1 (24m 14s):
As a business? You know, if your brand's on track, if your ultimate metric is your p and l, and I know that seems really vague at the beginning. I'll give you an example from the automotive industry. Do a lot of work in the automotive industry and the automotive industry. Marketing is focused a lot on attribution metrics which are very difficult to track and sales and monthly incentive programs. And what I tell auto dealers is this, you need to focus on two metrics, number of cars sold and marketing costs per car sold. Those will never ever, ever lie to you. And I'm not talking about advertising costs, what I paid in ads because I think the more you pay in ads, that's really a tax based on how strong your brand is.
1 (25m 1s):
You pay more ad money if your brand isn't as strong. So it's a tax. So focus on the bottom line metrics. If you're a furniture store, you wanna look at marketing costs per thousand dollars of inventory sold. Find a metric that can't be faked, find a metric that can't make you feel good From an ego standpoint, hey we have a lot of likes or views or impressions, all of those things can be bought. What you can't buy is a bottom line. Find the lowest point on your, on your p and l that you can attribute your marketing efforts because brand, again back to the beginning, branding efforts do detract from sales efforts. Sales efforts are a little more easily to decipher how's this working for me?
1 (25m 42s):
So you have to go beyond that total marketing spend and then find the highest level or the lowest level on your p and l you can attribute to a metric. So in cars I say number of cars sold and the cost of marketing per car. Two easy metrics will never lie to you in furniture, right? Or any product really. It could be cost of marketing per thousand dollars sold. Find that metric in your business. It will never lie to you.
0 (26m 3s):
Fire Nation, what are your profits and losses? No your numbers, if you're really running a business, know your numbers and I'm talking personally net profits cuz you can buy gross profits. What do you do? You just spend more money on ads and yeah more money comes in the door. But are those ads profitable? Is there actually ROI return on investment on those ads that Super Bowl commercial that you bought? Did you actually get enough people to take action that you're actually a positive ROI on that? And the last thing we're really gonna chat about today before we wrap things up Paul, are key performance indicators. Now you know we've been chatting about a few of those right here, but let's get really specific about the ones that you think Fire Nation as business owners should be measuring.
1 (26m 45s):
Here's one we didn't talk about and and I'll bring this in cause I think it's an important texture. If you're a solopreneur you don't have to worry about this as much, but the second you hire your first person, which I know a lot of people in this audience do have people working for them, what is your retention rate for your team? Because we didn't talk about the the human, the human side of the benefit of brand and that's people being able to do and work for something they actually believe in. It's, it's really great when this stuff has a sales result but it's even better when it actually is a human result in your business. So employee retention, time to hire, which is how long does it take to hire somebody from the time you post an ad? I know that's getting off on a little bit of a tangent, but the first things that came to mind when you said KPIs on the, on the sales and marketing side, I'm really gonna default back to the thing I just said like the KPI is, is net profit like that you just brought that out.
1 (27m 39s):
Like what are those bottom metrics that you can find? I can't give you an exact one unless I knew your industry, but the some examples is your marketing cost and sometimes that's measured in hours. That's probably an important thing to say. If you don't have a big marketing budget or no one's working for you, you're definitely spending your time. And so starting to track and measure the time you spend on marketing your business will actually help you dial in the return you're getting on that time spent. Because
0 (28m 4s):
That's opportunity cost, like that's opportunity, cost of time you could be spending doing other things that could actually be moving your business forward, making you money in different areas.
1 (28m 12s):
Absolutely. Especially if you're like a consultant, right? Your time is your most valuable. It's like that's what you sell, you sell time and, and you know, even on the family front, if you have a family then if you're giving time to marketing, you're taking it from your family back to that give and take. So I think time is one that that often gets overlooked, especially if you're a solopreneur and it's easy to discount it because you know, people like us have that motivation where I just put my head down and I I work until it's done work. So yeah, so that's, that's my thoughts on the kpi. It's not, not a super clean answer but I think it's the realest answer I can give.
0 (28m 50s):
Yeah and I wanted to hit back on retention rate cuz Fire Nation, you need to think about all of the things in your business. Cause it does take a lot of time and energy and money to rehire and to train in all these things. And so that kind of churn needs to be addressed. Like you really need to say, okay listen, I'm going to hire slow, but then fire fast. Like when you know it's the wrong person, get rid of them. But man, you wanna really be trying to hire the right people because of all of that retention cost that just goes out the window for what we just talked about. And Paul, we talked about a lot when it comes to brand and running a successful business, what would you say is the one key takeaway that you wanna make sure Fire Nation really gets from our conversation today?
1 (29m 30s):
Go back to the very, very intro, the phrase brand is Gravity is something we've adopted as an agency. I've adopted personal personally. Key takeaway being, if you think of it alongside of the metaphor of Gravity, realize that the strength of your brand will attract the right things to you. So if you're investing in brand, you're investing in making that gravitational pull stronger. Think of it in that context and I think you'll make better decisions.
0 (30m 1s):
And where can Fire Nation find out more about you? Give us a call to action if you have the a place you'd like us to go to learn more, take that home.
1 (30m 9s):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm so passionate about this and my agency works with a lot of large clients and national clients, but being an entrepreneur and coming from like just being in a van by myself, like I wanted to find a way that I could spread this message and empower more. Like just because you have a small business doesn't mean you have to have a small brand. So we have a website called brandisgravity.com. brandisgravity.com, where we have some tools that are actually usable. I, I see a lot of stuff and it's always 30,000 feet and that's great. I love reading Seth Golden. But I wanted to make something that as a small business owner, as an executive of a company, as a marketing manager, I could keep on my desk to keep me on target and run not just marketing decisions through, but product decisions, operational decisions, recruiting decisions through.
1 (30m 56s):
So brandisgravity.com is kind of the culmination of walking people through this process to make the world better through better branding.
0 (31m 4s):
Fire Nation, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with and you have been hanging out with PD and JLDtoday. So keep up the heat and head over to EOFire.com. And if you just type Paul and the search bar, the SHS page is gonna come up for today's episode with all the links, everything that we talked about, all the resources. And Paul, one more time, give us that call to action for the url. We can go directly to to learn more about you and your business and then we'll say goodbye.
1 (31m 32s):
Brandisgravity.com. I just, we wanted to really serve your audience because we love it and it means a lot to us. So we have a hefty, hefty promo code for for the EOF audience. It actually is EOF. So if you go to brandisgravity.com, use the promo code EOF, you get half off. Wow. So just hefty. Just because I believe in your message, I believe in this audience, and frankly, I want more people in this tribe. So we can encourage one another.
0 (31m 58s):
Fire Nation, you can take advantage of opportunities like this because Paul's a real deal. That's why he was on Entrepreneurs On Fire, dropping the value making things happen. So definitely go check it out, use a promo code, EOF, make, make things happen. See if this is for you. If it is, you're off to the races. If it's not, guess what? No harm, no foul. So Paul, thank you for sharing these value bombs today. For that we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side.
1 (32m 26s):
Thanks for having me. Talk to you all soon.
0 (32m 28s):
Hey Fire Nation, today's value bomb content was brought to you today by Paul. So if you've had your big idea, well then you're ready to ignite. But if you haven't, guess what? I have a completely free training that's gonna get you to your big idea. And I'm talking less than an hour Fire Nation under 60 Minutes. So visit your bigidea.io today, not tomorrow today. And I'll catch you there. Or I'll catch you on the flip side, peace looking for a place where you can experience live interactions with your audience, then Speakeasy is for you. I'm loving creating daily content on speakeasy and I know you will too. Visit getspeakeasy.com to download the app and go live today.
0 (33m 12s):
Success story hosted by Scott D. Clarey is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals success story features Q and A, keynote presentations and convos on sales marketing and more. A recent episode on how to protect your business in times of crisis is a must. Listen, listen to success story wherever you get your podcasts.
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